[nagdu] Any tips for us?
Tracy Carcione
carcione at access.net
Fri Aug 28 18:16:30 UTC 2015
Yes Julie, this is precisely what I was trying to get at. Thank you for
putting it so well.
It is impossible to dog-proof the world, therefore, the dog must become
world-proof, and that can only happen if the dog learns to control itself.
Even if I could totally dog-proof even my own house, stuff still happens.
Things get dropped or spilled. The phone or the doorbell rings at an
inopportune moment. The dog has to learn not to give in to every temptation.
Tracy
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. via
nagdu
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 1:20 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Julie J.
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Any tips for us?
I'll try to explain my thoughts about self control a bit better.
Firstly, I think puppy proofing the house and good management are necessary
and should absolutely be done. However at some point the puppy needs to be
given the opportunity to behave himself even in the presence of temptation.
Let's take shoes for example. When you first bring a puppy home, you put
the shoes in the closet and shut the door, removing the opportunity for the
puppy to get into trouble by chewing inappropriately. that's really good.
You want to keep the puppy safe and establish good habits and all that.
Maybe a few months down the road though, after teething is over and the
puppy has learned better to only chew on his toys, it's important to leave a
pair of shoes out. You still need to supervise and help the puppy
understand the shoes aren't his toys, but the puppy needs the opportunity to
actively make the choice to do the right thing.
I get the drift that a lot of puppy raisers manage the dogs to the extent
that they never ever get the opportunity to choose to behave. I think self
control can only be taught if there is an opportunity for choice. Perhaps
this is what Tracy was getting at with the crate business? Are crates being
over used to the extent that puppies never learn the skills of managing
themselves independently in the house?
I hope that makes some sense.
Julie
Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
available! Get the book here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
-----Original Message-----
From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 5:44 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Raven Tolliver
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Any tips for us?
You gals bring up some great points. I will include things about impulse
control as well. It seems weird to bring it up when the pup is so young, but
better to have it in the back of their minds than to have them not think
about it at all.
I don't know the ins and outs of puppy-raising, but I know that different
puppy counselors encourage and allow, and discourage different training
methods and management tools. For instance, some counselors have their
raisers focus more on separation anxiety than others, some counselors work
hard with dog distractions, etc.
I have attended several puppy outings. I was sitting at a restaurant with a
group of raisers, and one of the raisers decided to come but had left her
pup at home. To my horror, another raiser said: "I never leave my puppy at
home alone." The dog was nine months old, which meant it would be turned in
for training in a couple months. Everyone was silent for a moment, and the
woman without her puppy politely explained why it is essential for the
puppies to be left alone sometimes.
Tracy, I understand your frustration. I think crate-training is sometimes
abused like other training tools, such as treats or correction collars.
People use them too much or inappropriately, and end up turning out a dog
that can't control themselves without those tools. And it is annoying.
I wonder if it has something to do with how much experience a person has
with raising pups. Are newer puppy-raisers more likely to keep their dogs
crated when home alone as opposed to the ol'-timers? It's something to think
about.
I'm not sure how much of an understanding puppy-raisers have of expectations
for guide dogs. There are in-for-training standards, which simply inform
raisers of standards their pups should meet in order to be turned in for
guide training. But those standards are not comprehensive. Specifically, the
IFT test covers what is expected of a dog actively working in-harness.
However, the standards don't assess a dog's house manners, or how a dog
manages during down time at home or in public when the only things to do are
people-watch, sleep, and simply mind their own business.
In relation to house manners, all the puppy counselor and LDB reps have to
go off are the puppy-raisers word and the things they observe during
gatherings and meetings.
I'm not sure if all the schools' IFT standards are this way, but LDB's
definitely are.
It would be nice if maybe part of the IFT test was having your pup stay in a
puppy counselor's home. I know that puppy-raisers are required by some
schools to keep another dog for a week while their pup stays with another
raiser. But I'm not sure if this is required by all schools. Also, a
counselor might have a more objective perspective than a fellow raiser.
For those who are curious, the LDB IFT standards are attached so that you
have a better idea of what I'm talking about.
--
Raven
Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
www.1am-editing.com
You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you have or
what you do.
Naturally-reared guide dogs
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
On 8/26/15, Danielle Sykora via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I'm not sure exactly how to put my thoughts into words, but I think it
> is important for puppy raisers to always remember to consider how the
> behavior of the puppy will effect it's working life. I know puppy
> raisers are given a lot of information on what to teach the pups and
> how to teach it, but I'm not sure they always understand why it is so
> important.
>
> When used properly, crate training should not create an impulsive dog.
> Yes, the puppy should be put in the crate when it isn't supervised
> while it's young, especially before it is house broken, but the puppy
> should spend less and less time in the crate as it gets older. I have
> a dog who doesn't have the best house behavior, but I really don't
> think crate training as a puppy made much difference. It's just the
> kind of dog he is, curious, a little impulsive, persistent, energetic,
> and intelligent all combining to make him a hand full at times. Many
> of those qualities though make him a good worker, so I deal with it.
>
> Danielle and Thai
>
> On 8/26/15, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I totally agree with Julie J.
>> Under self-control, I would add that the dog should be able to be in
>> another room, unconfined and unsupervised, without getting into mischief.
>> I wouldn't expect that of a young puppy, but, by the time the dog is
>> ready to go back to the school, I should be able to be in the kitchen
>> while the dog is in the living room without worrying about what he's
>> up to.
>>
>> I think this may be being lost with "crate training", which seems to
>> be translated to "If I can't watch the puppy, I'll just put him in
>> the crate." And so the puppy doesn't learn how to control himself
>> when not confined or supervised.
>> I've had Krokus for about 10 months, and it's only the last 2 or 3
>> that I feel comfortable leaving him unsupervised when I go out in the
>> yard or whatever. He's had a lot more trouble with self-control than
>> any dog I've ever had, and I'm not too pleased about it.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>> I think there are two goals that puppies need to achieve in order to
>>> be successful guides:
>>> 1. self control
>>> 2. the ability to cope with boredom
>>>
>>> If a dog understands that good things come to those who wait, then I can
>>> teach or reinforce most any behavior. If the dog understands that some
>>> things are off limits, always, and accepts that, then it won't
>>> become a power struggle. If a dog can pass up tempting
>>> opportunities, then we will both be happier. If a dog doesn't have
>>> to be entertained every moment of every day, then I can more freely
>>> live my life, doing the things I need to
>>> do. Or if the dog will play with toys or watch the cat or engage in
>>> whatever amusement he likes, without needing me to facilitate it,
>>> then life is good.
>>>
>>> I think everything else is a product of these two core traits. It
>>> sets the foundation for all future success. I simply don't care
>>> about a perfect sit.
>>> If my dog chooses to lie down instead, fine. what I want is for him
>>> to mind his own business and be unobtrusive, however he chooses to
>>> achieve that is acceptable to me.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is
>>> now available! Get the book here:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 7:41 AM
>>> To: nagdu
>>> Cc: Raven Tolliver
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Any tips for us?
>>>
>>> I get this question a lot from puppy-raisers, especially those who
>>> are about to raise their first dog, and the ones who haven't had a
>>> dog graduate.
>>> Obviously, there's a handful of tips in the huge packet of paperwork
>>> I have to go over with the raisers. Remember that your puppy is on
>>> the ground and will go after objects on the floor. Watch your pup
>>> outside to prevent him from picking up rocks and sticks. Patience,
>>> practice, praise. And so on.
>>> And of course, their puppy counselors and raiser groups will be
>>> there for them whenever they need.
>>> But I think the raisers still look for some overarching,
>>> comprehensive advice to keep in mind at all times.
>>>
>>> So off the record, this is the advice I give them.
>>> Be strict. More specifically, have an expectation for your dog at
>>> all times. When young dogs are not sleeping or eating, they're
>>> looking for something to do, so give them something to do or somewhere
to be.
>>> Reward the dog for performing that behavior or being in that place
>>> if it is not self-rewarding.
>>>
>>> An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Avoid problem
>>> behaviors by preventing them. Once a behavior is a problem, it is
>>> harder to eliminate since the dog finds it rewarding, and you now
>>> have to make an alternative behavior more rewarding than the problem
>>> behavior. Problem behaviors include alert barking, pulling on leash,
>>> inappropriate chewing, counter-surfing, scavenging in the garbage,
>>> scavenging in public, etc.
>>>
>>> What do you guys think of this advice? Furthermore, what other
>>> advice would be valuable to share?
>>> Thanks.
>>> --
>>> Raven
>>> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
>>> www.1am-editing.com
>>>
>>> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
>>> have or what you do.
>>>
>>> Naturally-reared guide dogs
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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