[nagdu] should the world conform to our desires was Guides at NFB training centers

Marianne Denning marianne at denningweb.com
Mon Aug 31 14:32:12 UTC 2015

Julie, what if I want to go to one of the centers for all of the other
great training available but they can't accommodate my use of a guide
dog?  As it currently stands, I can't go unless I am willing to use a
cane all day every day throughout the training time.  I agree that I
could learn a lot by using the discovery method but I am, primarily, a
dog user.  How do I translate that discovery method into using my dog?
 I have used my cane between dogs on 3 different occasions and did it
well but I didn't learn the discovery method.  I don't even have a
problem with using a cane part of the day, especially during O&M
classes and going out on activities.  We always get angry because
companies and organizations want to maintain the statis quo rather
than adapting to changing times.  Well, times are changing and the
centers may need to look at changing their methods too.

On 8/31/15, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Raven,
> I disagree with you on all of your points, quite a lot actually.  It appears
> that you are expecting the whole wide world to conform to what you want,
> regardless of what they are in business to do, paying you for or what the
> rules are.  There are two key points in the law that perhaps have been
> overlooked in this discussion.  They are the concepts of fundamental
> alterations and reasonable accommodations.
> The NFB centers offer a specific curriculum that includes using a long white
> cane.  that is what they have on offer.  Using a guide dog is a fundamental
> alteration of what they are offering.  You simply cannot learn what they are
> teaching if you are using a guide dog. I've heard your arguments and I don't
> think you truly understand the full complexity of orientation center
> training.
> You stated that you do not want to clip nails or give eye ointment, even
> though this is a job duty you were assigned and your employer offered you
> training.  It looks to me like you are using your blindness as an excuse to
> get out of doing work you don't like.  I've never had a job where I got to
> pick and choose my job duties.  they were clearly stated from the beginning.
> I could accept the job or not, but the duties were not negotiable.  Perhaps
> I'm the only one and have had unreasonable employers.  I asked my son what
> would happen at his place of employment if someone did this.  He replied
> that in fact it had happened before and the person was fired.
> A reasonable accommodation is required of the employer in order to get you
> the tools, training or whatever you need due to your disability in order to
> be able to do the job.  Your employer offered you training and you refused.
> If we want to be treated as equal in the workplace we have to act like
> equals, including doing *all* of the work we are assigned.
> You also stated that at the beginning of each class of new dogs and students
> the staff is asked to not walk dogs through that part of the campus.  You
> work your dog irregardless of this requirement.  Have you requested this as
> a reasonable accommodation?  I think it could be considered a fundamental
> alteration, because it interferes with the normal flow of business there.
> Reasonable accommodations doesn't mean we get whatever we want, whenever we
> want without consideration of the needs of the business.  It means
> reasonable.  The employer isn't required to let us do whatever we want.
> There is a long history of guide dog programs not hiring blind people.  In
> recent years this has slowly been changing.  There are now a few blind
> people working directly with dogs at the guide dog programs.   I think this
> has been a really positive change.  I'd hate to see it go back to
> discriminating against blind people again, because experiences with blind
> employees have given the wrong impression that blind people really can't do
> equal work for equal pay.
> Julie
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Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053

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