[nagdu] relieving surfaces was Introduction

Morgan Leland morganland at me.com
Tue Dec 1 23:13:36 UTC 2015 

Thank you. I realize there is a difference between the occasional accident and a daily event. I think I'm working through something a little more serious than most people, but I guess I don't really know yet since I'm so new. My trainer has been very helpful.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2015, at 3:33 PM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Morgan, I think she was just saying that you aren't going to always find it
convenient to do the "not poop, no route" method. Honestly, if you can find
a place to pull over where there are less folks traveling, then just pick up
after her on the concrete. Take the harness off if you have time to do it;
if not, she'll be fine. I used to stress a lot about this because I did have
a dog that got it in her head that she could stop anytime, especially in
places where we had stopped before, so I had to be cognissant of where she
was asking to relieve. Then I would have to have her relieve after that
point if she still expressed an interest. This wasn't always pooping, but
often it was. I took her out before we left on the route and as soon as we
reached the culmination of it. It isn't going to be a deal breaker, so don't
over stress about it. If you can, figure out when the dog is most likely to
do this. Is it significantly soon after a meal? Would it be well to consider
changing her feeding schedule? Is she stressed? Could it be she needs a
different kind of dogfood?
No one believes for a moment that you do not care about your dog.
Cindy


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Morgan Leland via
nagdu
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 4:19 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Morgan Leland <morganland at me.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] relieving surfaces was Introduction

I understand she is a dog and she will need to go when she needs to go. I
live in Arizona though and there are cactus everywhere so I can't just pull
over and go when she has to stop. I give her plenty of opportunities. I
don't expect her to walk miles with no opportunity to relieve herself. I
just have to make sure we are in a safe place before she does so. I also
work on college campus so I can't have her relieving in the middle of busy
areas or I may get my hand stepped on trying to pick it up. I know you don't
know me, so you don't know that I do care for my dog and do not have
expectations for her that are too high.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

The issue is not discerning between the sidewalk and a "parking spot."
The issue is that your dog is relieving herself outside of when she is given
a cue that it is okay.
I think the "no poop, no route," is a bit extreme. I understand you don't
want her to go on route, but you cannot force your dog to poop in a certain
place at the time you choose. She's gotta go when she's gotta go, so if she
only needs to poop after some exercise, it means she'll likely not poop
before walking some. And I dunno 'bout you, but waiting for my dog to poop
for 15-20 mins would get old fast.

Perhaps you can work with reteaching your dog that the harness has to come
off before it is okay to poop. She learned this as a pup, but perhaps a
retraining of this concept should be in the works.

I know you weren't expecting this. All of us have to do retraining to some
extent when we get dogs who didn't live in a house for 3-12 months.
--
Raven
Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
www.1am-editing.com

You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you have or
what you do.

Naturally-reared guide dogs
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs

> On 12/1/15, Morgan Leland via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I agree that grass is preferable and dogs probably will not need to be 
> trained for that. I was told that if you don't consistently use 
> concrete in the beginning they may choose not to go on it again in the 
> future, and in Arizona there will be times I have no other option than 
> concrete. So, if she starts getting squeamish about going on concrete, 
> we could have some real issues. I was worried that having her go on 
> concrete was the reason she was choosing to use the sidewalk, but I 
> have been assured by my trainers that is probably not the case. 
> Because I have some flexibility now I am just going to try having her 
> go and then do our routes. No poop, no route. Hopefully this gets 
> resolved before things get real and I don't have much of a choice.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 1, 2015, at 1:53 PM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Now, I just had a driveway, steps, and a patio, but the term was concrete.
> I
> did not know that difference. The Seeing Eye's dog relieve on a hard 
> surface, but I have never had one come home, see the grass in my yard, 
> and say, "Ah, I think concrete is wonderful." It was more likely to 
> say, "Ah, Grass!"
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. 
> via nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 1:03 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] relieving surfaces was Introduction
> 
> Raven,
> 
> Yes and no.  Cement is a component of concrete.  Most people use the terms
> interchangeably to mean the same thing.   Concrete is a mixture of cement,
> water and fillers, usually crushed rock/gravel.  Cement alone is more 
> expensive, but smoother when dry because there is no gravel filler 
> mixed in.
> 
> So cement might be used for say a swimming pool or roller skate rink, 
> while concrete is used for sidewalks and most other applications.
> 
> A dog isn't going to recognize the difference between cement and concrete.
> Most people don't.  I never knew until doing a home project and 
> looking like a dork at the home improvement store. *smile*
> 
> I don't teach my dogs to relieve on concrete.  I've had very little 
> problems with relieving in harness on route.  I don't know if that's 
> related or coincidence.  I live in an area with abundant 
> grass/gravel/woodchip/dirt readily available.  So as long as I 
> continue to live in this sort of area, I will continue to not allow 
> concrete relieving at any time.
> 
> Julie
> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is 
> now available! Get the book here:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 11:02 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Raven Tolliver
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Introduction
> 
> Cement and concrete are 2 different things, aren't they? Just asking, 
> 'cause I think those are 2 different surfaces.
> --
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
> 
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you 
> have or what you do.
> 
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
> 
>> On 11/30/15, Debby Phillips via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Even in class, Nova would not poop on cement.  She would pee, 
>> reluctantly.  Finally I just started taking her to some grass.
>> My instructor said that there are some dogs who just will not go on 
>> concrete, unless they are totally desperate.  We tried walking her 
>> and walking her, I even resorted to singing.  Lol.  I'd never seen a 
>> dog as stubborn about going on concrete, or not going, rather.  She 
>> will go in dirt, which is good, because sometimes
>> when away from home, that's all I've been able to find.    Debby
>> and Nova who HATES pooping on concrete
> 
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