[nagdu] relieving surfaces was Introduction

Morgan Leland morganland at me.com
Wed Dec 2 01:06:15 UTC 2015


Thanks for the feedback. I do that with her with mixed success. Right now we are trying intervals and working right after poops. It worked really well today. I will not always have the freedom to structure our routes this way but hopefully it lays a good foundation and gets her out of the habit of relieving in harness. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 1, 2015, at 5:39 PM, Vivianna via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Hi there.
for me, this is one of those things that i will not put up with in my guide.  i understand that it may happen, if the dog is sick for example.  but, i would not work a dog that could not be trained to not relieve in harness.
i had a dog once that would not go before we started on our route and then would try going in harness.  i learned that, if i walked 2 blocks and then curbed him, he would go no problems.  so, i located some trash cans in various directions and just went out the door and started the route, stopping after 2 blocks and letting him go.  this worked for him.
if my dog shows signs of needing to relieve, i stop right away whip off the harness and curb her.  if the dog actually starts going in harness, i physically drag/push them off the sidewalk, whip off the harness and curb them.  i am definitely not opposed to the word NO, or a good stiff old-fashioned leash correction.  the dog must learn that this behavior is NOT acceptable, never ever.  
and, i agree the dog should be able to relief on all sorts of surfaces as well as off curbs.

what if you tried just leaving and then stop after 1 block, ask her to go, give her like 3 minutes and, if she doesn’t go then, try 1 more block.  ask again.  if she doesn’t go try 1 more block. this way you will get an idea how long she has to walk before she will go.  then, the next day you can shoot for the same distance again.


anyway, just my thoughts.

Vivianna

> On Dec 1, 2015, at 4:18 PM, Morgan Leland via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I understand she is a dog and she will need to go when she needs to go. I live in Arizona though and there are cactus everywhere so I can't just pull over and go when she has to stop. I give her plenty of opportunities. I don't expect her to walk miles with no opportunity to relieve herself. I just have to make sure we are in a safe place before she does so. I also work on college campus so I can't have her relieving in the middle of busy areas or I may get my hand stepped on trying to pick it up. I know you don't know me, so you don't know that I do care for my dog and do not have expectations for her that are too high.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Dec 1, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> The issue is not discerning between the sidewalk and a "parking spot."
> The issue is that your dog is relieving herself outside of when she is
> given a cue that it is okay.
> I think the "no poop, no route," is a bit extreme. I understand you
> don't want her to go on route, but you cannot force your dog to poop
> in a certain place at the time you choose. She's gotta go when she's
> gotta go, so if she only needs to poop after some exercise, it means
> she'll likely not poop before walking some. And I dunno 'bout you, but
> waiting for my dog to poop for 15-20 mins would get old fast.
> 
> Perhaps you can work with reteaching your dog that the harness has to
> come off before it is okay to poop. She learned this as a pup, but
> perhaps a retraining of this concept should be in the works.
> 
> I know you weren't expecting this. All of us have to do retraining to
> some extent when we get dogs who didn't live in a house for 3-12
> months.
> -- 
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
> 
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
> have or what you do.
> 
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
> 
>> On 12/1/15, Morgan Leland via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I agree that grass is preferable and dogs probably will not need to be
>> trained for that. I was told that if you don't consistently use concrete in
>> the beginning they may choose not to go on it again in the future, and in
>> Arizona there will be times I have no other option than concrete. So, if she
>> starts getting squeamish about going on concrete, we could have some real
>> issues. I was worried that having her go on concrete was the reason she was
>> choosing to use the sidewalk, but I have been assured by my trainers that is
>> probably not the case. Because I have some flexibility now I am just going
>> to try having her go and then do our routes. No poop, no route. Hopefully
>> this gets resolved before things get real and I don't have much of a
>> choice.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Dec 1, 2015, at 1:53 PM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Now, I just had a driveway, steps, and a patio, but the term was concrete.
>> I
>> did not know that difference. The Seeing Eye's dog relieve on a hard
>> surface, but I have never had one come home, see the grass in my yard, and
>> say, "Ah, I think concrete is wonderful." It was more likely to say, "Ah,
>> Grass!"
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2015 1:03 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] relieving surfaces was Introduction
>> 
>> Raven,
>> 
>> Yes and no.  Cement is a component of concrete.  Most people use the terms
>> interchangeably to mean the same thing.   Concrete is a mixture of cement,
>> water and fillers, usually crushed rock/gravel.  Cement alone is more
>> expensive, but smoother when dry because there is no gravel filler mixed
>> in.
>> 
>> So cement might be used for say a swimming pool or roller skate rink, while
>> concrete is used for sidewalks and most other applications.
>> 
>> A dog isn't going to recognize the difference between cement and concrete.
>> Most people don't.  I never knew until doing a home project and looking
>> like
>> a dork at the home improvement store. *smile*
>> 
>> I don't teach my dogs to relieve on concrete.  I've had very little
>> problems
>> with relieving in harness on route.  I don't know if that's related or
>> coincidence.  I live in an area with abundant grass/gravel/woodchip/dirt
>> readily available.  So as long as I continue to live in this sort of area,
>> I
>> will continue to not allow concrete relieving at any time.
>> 
>> Julie
>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
>> available! Get the book here:
>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2015 11:02 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Raven Tolliver
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Introduction
>> 
>> Cement and concrete are 2 different things, aren't they? Just asking,
>> 'cause
>> I think those are 2 different surfaces.
>> --
>> Raven
>> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
>> www.1am-editing.com
>> 
>> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you have or
>> what you do.
>> 
>> Naturally-reared guide dogs
>> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>> 
>>> On 11/30/15, Debby Phillips via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Even in class, Nova would not poop on cement.  She would pee,
>>> reluctantly.  Finally I just started taking her to some grass.
>>> My instructor said that there are some dogs who just will not go on
>>> concrete, unless they are totally desperate.  We tried walking her and
>>> walking her, I even resorted to singing.  Lol.  I'd never seen a dog
>>> as stubborn about going on concrete, or not going, rather.  She will
>>> go in dirt, which is good, because sometimes
>>> when away from home, that's all I've been able to find.    Debby
>>> and Nova who HATES pooping on concrete
>> 
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