[NAGDU] Cricket can growl?

Mon Dec 28 18:24:18 UTC 2015

Raven, you put this very well.  That is why there are times when I
will not correct my dogs.  I had a situation with my first guide dog.
I was standing outside a hospital waiting for a ride and 2 men came up
to me.  My dog put herself across my body in a very defensive
position.  She was definitely out of position but I thought she was
warning me these were not good people.  They spoke to me and I talked
casually to them.  One of them asked me if she would bite.  I said she
would to protect me.  My ride came and we went about our business.

On 12/28/15, Raven Tolliver via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Here's the quick and dirty on doggie intros. I learned plenty about
> this when I worked at an animal shelter for roughly 1.5 years.
>
> If any of the dogs have questionable temperament around other dogs or
> are unfamiliar to either of the handlers present, introduce the dogs
> with a barrier to separate them. A barrier can include a fence or a
> baby gate.
> As an alternative, introduce the dogs on-leash in an open area like an
> open living room, backyard, etc.
> Using a barrier or introducing in an open area provides an opportunity
> to formally evaluate each dog's body language in reaction to the
> situation, and also gives everyone the opportunity to back away, and
> display any fearful behavior with the handler's ability to immediately
> remove a dog from the situation.
> Common fear responses include backing away, raised hackles, heavy
> panting, excessive licking of chops, tail between the legs, urinating,
> showing teeth, growling, rapid-fire barking. Usually, more than one
> behavior is exhibited at a time. Also remember that any aggressive
> behavior is a stress or fear response. So if you perceive your dog as
> being aggressive, the right thing to do is to remove them from the
> situation.
>
> Leash corrections can escalate the problem, not diffuse or calm the
> situation. If your dog feels trapped and  that her only defense is
> growling, correcting her does not make her feel better about her sense
> of stress, fear, or helplessness.
> In this instance, the best thing to do is to respect your dog's
> feelings of stress and remove her from the situation. Backing down the
> stairs, or turning and swiftly descending the stairs is what I would
> recommend.
>
> There are very specific criteria that merit a leash correction, and
> that is when a dog knows for a fact what is expected in a particular
> circumstance, and other forms of correction or redirection have failed
> to remind the dog of its manners. More specifically, it's a last
> resort, not a first resort as many schools seem to fail to reiterate.
> Leash corrections should never be used in a panic, freak-out, or
> emergency situation. We all know what is usually expected of us, but
> when we're panicking or freaking out, it isn't unusual to behave in a
> way that is atypical.
>
> A couple days ago, my dog was playing with a young pup. After 15
> minutes, he was done playing, but the puppy kept bothering my dog. The
> 2 dogs were in an office together, with no way to get out except
> jumping or bursting down a gate. However, I was in the office, so my
> dog came and jumped up in my lap. This was extremely unusual, and I
> could have corrected him for this undesirable behavior. But I know
> that the young dog was stressing him out, and he wanted to get away
> from him, so I simply told my dog "off," and crated the pup.
>
> We all make mistakes and correct when we shouldn't. And it is a good
> thing that you're reflecting on what happened to figure out what can
> be done differently next time.
> --
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
>
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
> have or what you do.
>
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>
> On 12/28/15, Marianne Denning via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> You learned something new about Cricket.  Just remember you are still
>> in the getting to know each other phase.  Now that you know that you
>> can be better prepared the next time.  We all leanr things about our
>> dogs in the first several months of working together.
>>
>> On 12/27/15, Abby Bolling via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I wish I would've been able to handle it a little bit differently and
>>> possibly not have cracked her is hard, but it was so out of character
>>> for
>>> her to growl the way she did, and to me it sounded aggressive. And since
>>> the
>>> dogs did not back up after her first growl and she grout again, that's
>>> when
>>> I asked if someone could help me. Because I am on a college campus, and
>>> because there are some dogs on campus who have reputations of being
>>> aggressive, even though their service dogs, (I don't get it!) I do want
>>> cricket to understand that growling in harness is an acceptable
>>> behavior.
>>> I
>>> have taught her to bark on command because I will sometimes for my job
>>> have
>>> to walk at night, and that makes me really nervous. So I figure if
>>> someone
>>> is out there, they're less likely to hurt me if they know that I have a
>>> dog
>>> with me, whether or not they know if she's aggressive. Anyway, I want
>>> her
>>> to
>>> understand that it is generally not acceptable to vocalize and harness
>>> and
>>> less I give her a specific verbal or hand signal is a command for her to
>>> do
>>> so. I did go see the dogs after the party was over and I had my dad hold
>>> cricket while I went to the room with them. I noticed that they were not
>>> very well-behaved, jumping, pushing, biting each other, nipping me, and
>>> generally undesirable dog behaviors.cx they would not follow a single
>>> commands like sit lay down or come down or anything like that. To get
>>> one
>>> of
>>> them to stop jumping on me I actually had to scrub her, which I hate
>>> doing,
>>> and I don't think has ever been done to her, so it surprised her but she
>>> started doing what I wanted her to do which was not jump on me. I don't
>>> blame cricket for growling, now that I'm not in that situation. I just
>>> have
>>> to learn a different way to redirect her attention, and try to redirect
>>> the
>>> other dogs attention as well. The other thing is that neither one of
>>> those
>>> dogs had collars on, so I could not hear where they were to get in
>>> between
>>> them and my dog, which is what I would usually do. I also didn't know
>>> which
>>> way I could pull cricket to get her away from them. Next time I go over
>>> there, which will probably be a holiday of some sort, or my cousin James
>>> birthday in October, I will definitely ask them before I go in if they
>>> can
>>> put their dogs away or I just won't take her and harness. Like I said, I
>>> am
>>> very wary of leaving her at home for a long period of time when I have
>>> had
>>> her for a short amount of time. We were only supposed to be there for
>>> around
>>> 3 1/2 hours, but we ended up being there almost exactly for six hours. I
>>> feel like that's kind of too long of a time for a 20-month-old dog to
>>> spend
>>> by herself if she has never had to spend that long by herself before.
>>> But anyway, thank you all so much for your supportive words and
>>> suggestions.
>>> I am trying to get away from the physical corrections and use an
>>> auditory
>>> correction instead. (I actually just did a paper on this) if you guys
>>> have
>>> any more suggestions or if you want to write something to me that you
>>> don't
>>> want to post in the thread for whatever reason, feel free to email me at
>>> the
>>> Maile address that is located in my signature. That way, it will pop up
>>> on
>>> the lock screen of my phone and I will see it right away.
>>> Thank you all again, and I hope you guys have a wonderful new year!
>>> PS, please ignore any bad wording choices or spelling mistakes in my
>>> email,
>>> I am using dictation, and I don't feel like going through my email word
>>> by
>>> word to edit at the moment. But, I just listened to it with voiceover,
>>> and
>>> I
>>> think you guys will get the gist of what I'm saying.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Dec 27, 2015, at 4:01 PM, Julie J. via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea what I would have done.  I'd like to think I'd have been
>>>> brilliant and my dog would have behaved and the other dogs would have
>>>> magically gone about their business, but the reality is that I don't do
>>>> so
>>>> well thinking on the fly like that.  So I would have reacted by
>>>> instinct
>>>> or what I've done before or whatever.
>>>>
>>>> Things I have done when encountering friendly dogs...
>>>> *kept on going about my business
>>>> *let my dog greet the other dog
>>>> *stood in between the two dogs and shooed the other dog away
>>>> *yelled at the owner to get their dog
>>>> *had my dog wait in a down until the other dog leaves or the owner
>>>> comes
>>>> to get him
>>>>
>>>> Things I've done to unfriendly dogs...
>>>> *turned around and gone another way
>>>> *stood between the two dogs and shooed the other dog away
>>>> *moved menacingly toward the other dog
>>>> *gave the owner what for in colorful language
>>>> *recently I kicked a dog who was lunging toward Jetta
>>>>
>>>> Things I've thought about doing but never have:
>>>> *taking pictures
>>>> *pepper spray
>>>> *air horn
>>>> *spring loaded umbrella
>>>>
>>>> I have corrected my dogs for acting like a ninny around other dogs.
>>>> I've
>>>> also had them sit at a reasonable distance to reinforce calm and
>>>> appropriate behavior.  I've moved across the street and expected them
>>>> to
>>>> continue to guide.  I've given treats for calm and appropriate
>>>> behavior.
>>>> And yes, sometimes I let my dogs growl at other dogs, especially if I
>>>> know
>>>> my dog is growling as a correction for socially inappropriate behavior.
>>>> Many, many years ago, I taught obedience classes.  I had Tia then and
>>>> she
>>>> was a wonderful example dog.  A lot of the dogs I worked with didn't
>>>> have
>>>> very good dog to dog social skills and Tia was very, very good at being
>>>> patient, but also growling when they crossed the line.  The other dogs
>>>> weren't aggressive, just rude and she would communicate to them that
>>>> they
>>>> were being rude.  It helped the other dogs to learn what was okay and
>>>> what
>>>> wasn't. It's how dogs communicate and I don't have a problem with it.
>>>> That said, there is growling and then there is growling and not all
>>>> growls
>>>> are created equally.  A mama dog might growl at her puppies when they
>>>> are
>>>> being wild. She isn't aggressive and she isn't going to hurt the pups,
>>>> but
>>>> they need to know that what they are doing is inappropriate.  Then
>>>> there
>>>> is the food/toy/territory aggressive dog who growls at dogs or people
>>>> when
>>>> they get too close to his food/toy/kennel.  This is not okay and will
>>>> probably require a skilled trainer to help.
>>>>
>>>> I think it's good to look back and think about what you could have done
>>>> better.  It helps you to process the whole thing and hopefully to do
>>>> better next time.  However there comes a point when you just have to
>>>> let
>>>> go and move on.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is
>>>> now
>>>> available! Get the book here:
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Cindy Ray via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 2:03 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Cc: Cindy Ray
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Cricket can growl?
>>>>
>>>> I don't see a thing wrong with doing corrections. If it gets the
>>>> results
>>>> you are looking for, you praise. You cannot always assess the whole
>>>> situation until much later. Much later might well be too late. If you
>>>> know
>>>> your dog, you know what kind of corrections are appropriate for it. If
>>>> someone is petting my dog and the dog is distracted and not doing what
>>>> I
>>>> want, I correct it even if it is not the dog's fault. It needs to
>>>> understand the fact that it is not behaving in a way I would expect it
>>>> to.
>>>> It also corrects the person who was messing with the dog. Same goes
>>>> here.
>>>> If someone's dog is in my dog's face, my dog is growling, I am going to
>>>> correct it. Then the person to whom other dog belongs can feel badly
>>>> maybe
>>>> because my dog had to be corrected, and they might think twice before
>>>> they
>>>> allow the situation to come up again. My dog isn't going to have some
>>>> kind
>>>> of lasting traumatic effect afterwards unless I've abused it. I
>>>> wouldn't
>>>> ever abuse my dog. And people may think I am abusing the dog sometimes
>>>> because dogs aren't ever corrected if they are "civilian" dogs. So I
>>>> would
>>>> make no apologies to anyone if I have corrected my dog.
>>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wayne And
>>>> Harley via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2015 1:06 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Wayne And Harley <k9dad at k9di.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Cricket can growl?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Abby,Being that it was a situation you hadn't prepped for I think
>>>> you
>>>> did well.However, a firm "No, Leave It" is what I would have done.
>>>> Given
>>>> that a growl was her only way of letting the other dogs know she didn't
>>>> appreciate them being in her face. Better to have her growl a bit then
>>>> learn she can't growl and instead go straight into a silent attack.
>>>> Yours, Very Sincerely And Respectfully,
>>>>
>>>> Wayne M. Scace
>>>>
>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>> From: Abby Bolling via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Date: 12/27/2015  02:21  (GMT-06:00)
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Abby Bolling <violingirl30794 at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Cricket can growl?
>>>>
>>>> Hi all!
>>>> I hope you all had a wonderful holiday!
>>>> I went to my uncles house for our annual  family get together. My aunt
>>>> and
>>>> uncle have two black labs and they said that of course, cricket was
>>>> welcome, that Stella and Lulu would love to play with another dog.
>>>> Well,
>>>> that didn't go as planned.
>>>> I was working Cricket into the house because we don't go there very
>>>> often,
>>>> so the layout is very unfamiliar to me.
>>>> So Cricket and I are walking up the steps and she is doing really
>>>> really
>>>> good. She steps up and is on the landing and all of a sudden I hear
>>>> puppy
>>>> paws on the wood floor. Crickets harness handle is 20inches long
>>>> because
>>>> she is super short, but this means, when we go up steps, I am usually
>>>> two
>>>> steps behind her. So I wasn't on the landing yet. But all of a sudden,
>>>> I
>>>> feel Crickets head jerk around a little bit, then she turns to the
>>>> right
>>>> to body block me. at this point, I can feel Stella and Lulu like
>>>> dancing
>>>> around Cricket and getting in her  face and jumping at her.
>>>> I could tell they were playing, but i have no idea what was going
>>>> through
>>>> Crickets head. I was very surprised when I heard my little 48 pound
>>>> tiny
>>>> black lab let out one of the most terrifying growls I have ever heard.
>>>> I'm
>>>> serious, I was taken-aback for a split second.
>>>> I corrected her so hard that she actually did a 180 degree turn, but
>>>> Stella got back in her face and she growled again. At this point I was
>>>> able to get on the landing and correct her hard again, but even through
>>>> the fact that the collar was tight around her throat, she was still
>>>> trying
>>>> to growl. At this point, my cousin was able to grab Stella and then
>>>> Lulu
>>>> and put them in a separate room, but Cricket was still wound up and was
>>>> jumping in the air. I literally had to almost tackle her to get her to
>>>> lay
>>>> down and calm down.
>>>> My family doesn't understand dog corrections, and they cringe and
>>>> squawked
>>>> because they thought I was hurting Cricket. I told them that I wasn't
>>>> "hurting her," sure it wasn't comfortable, but I wasn't debilitating
>>>> her.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now the question! In your guys' opinion, did I handle the situation
>>>> correctly? Should I not take cricket over there? And what would yall
>>>> have
>>>> done in that situation?
>>>> My Boyfriend asked why I didn't take Cricket out to the car, as it is
>>>> really warm here, so temperature wise she would have been safe, but I
>>>> didn't do that because she has really bad separation anxiety and will
>>>> cry
>>>> and whine and howl if she is left alone very much.
>>>> And since I have only had her home for 4 months, I don't want to make
>>>> her
>>>> mad too early in the game.
>>>>
>>>> So anyway, thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? All are appreciated!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Abby and the currently snuggly peaceful sleepy cricket.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Abigail M. Bolling
>>>> Wright State University-2018: Rehabilitation Services
>>>> Phone: (513) 512-3456
>>>> Email: bolling.8 at wright.edu
>>>> Abilities United: Secretary
>>>> Ohio Association of Guide Dog Users, a chapter of the National
>>>> Federation
>>>> of the Blind of Ohio: Secretary "keep a smile on your face and a song
>>>> in
>>>> your heart, and just let the music play." (Julie Anderson-Diamond)
>>>> "Dance
>>>> like no one is watching, love like you'll never be hurt, sing like no
>>>> one
>>>> is listening, and live like it's Heaven on earth." (William Purkey) The
>>>> National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>>>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the
>>>> expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles
>>>> between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want;
>>>> blindness is not what holds you back.
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marianne%40denningweb.com
>

-- 
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053