[nagdu] What's up with all the scavenging anyhow?

[The Pawpower Pack]

Julie, 
well said.  The dog I had with the worst scavenging problem was a lab.  My first, trained at a program back in the good old golden days of no food and very hard lead corrections.  
The four dogs I have had after that— three who were trained with food and the clicker were not scavengers at all.  My current guide, also another lab, is a scavenger, although it is improving.  Leash corrections didn't work with her, either.  Zen, however does.  She knows she will get food for ignoring food, and I do keep it at a very high rate of reinforcement because this is a behavior that if given a chance, will become very self- rewarding. 


 Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
Pawpower4me at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 1, 2015, at 5:45 AM, "Julie J. via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> All four of my owner trained guides have been trained with food and I have not had a problem with scavenging with any of them. Some of them even got people food and still managed to behave appropriately when at restaurants. And yes, they were or are highly food motivated dogs.
> 
> I think scavenging is determined by two main factors, the dog's natural propensity to scavenge, and the previous success/reward for scavenging. Of course all dogs will grab stuff, but just like everything else some dogs have a stronger tendency to do it.  If early attempts were successful, it builds a strong reward system that would be difficult to break.  Imagine if you won the lottery the first time you bought a ticket, wouldn't you expect to win again?
> 
> I think how food is used plays a huge role in how dogs react around food. For example if I drop a treat during training, I get out another instead of letting the dog grab it from the ground.  Food comes from my hand, no where else.  At home I teach food refusal by using food.  It's typically called dog Zen or you get what you want by ignoring what you want.
> 
> Also I don't think scavenging is an epidemic.  It's just been that a few people are struggling with it right now and are asking for help.  Next month it will be something else.  That's how topics on the list go.  I've been on this list for more than ten years now and we ran out of new topics long ago, so we revisit all the old ones for the new people, or older people with new issues or just in case someone has had a new thought about something.
> 
> Julie
> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now available! Get the book here:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
> -----Original Message----- From: Vivianna via nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 12:50 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Vivianna
> Subject: [nagdu] What's up with all the scavenging anyhow?
> 
> ok, here goes a contraversial post.
> i am reading a load of posts about folks having problems with their dogs grabbing things off the ground.  it seems that, this is the most common problem that folks seem to be having with the second being dog distractions.
> do you think that, since many schools are using food to train the dogs that this problem has come up?  i have had several guides and have never had a dog try and carry things around.  i also never use food as a reward for my dog.
> i am just so totally against feeding my dog treats in order to get her to guide me properly.
> from what i read, dogs are grabbing things off the ground while actually guiding, while lying on a bus or train, in restaurants, in stores, while relieving, etc.
> for me, and, this is just my own preference, i could not work with a dog that did this.  i can put up with some behaviors but, this is definitely not one of them.
> folks seem to think that it’s ok to treat the dog for good behavior and then they wonder why he’s so focused on food.  i have even had 3 labs and, they didn’t want to carry things around.
> for a pet, yeah, maybe it’s cute to see the dog carrying around toys in public, but, a guide dog?  this should be a professionally trained dog doing a professional job, looking out for the handler.
> i think that, if the dogs were trained without the use of treats this would be way less common.
> this is all only my opinion and things that i, personally could not handle.
> i have probably offended some but, maybe, i may just caused some to think about the food-based training a bit.
> 
> Vivianna
> 
> 
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