[nagdu] clicker and scavenging/impulse control

Thu Jul 2 20:40:19 UTC 2015

Oh.  Okay.  That makes sense.  Thanks.

Kaye

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis via
nagdu
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 1:30 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Tami Jarvis
Subject: Re: [nagdu] clicker and scavenging/impulse control

Kaye,

It's in the position of the hand. When I'm giving a treat as a reward, I
have it in my open upturned palm or in my fingers with my hand in a certain
position. For zen, I use a closed fist at first, then hide the treat on the
ground or coffee table under my downturned palm. When I'm first teaching
touch, I show the dog the treat on my palm, so my hand is turned with the
fingers pointing up and the palm facing the dog. Then I let the dog see me
close my last two fingers over the treat and have it touch the two fingers
I'm holding out to touch. The gestures I use for other behaviors like sit
and down grow out of that position once the dog is watching and following my
hand. While I'm going through this process, I'm also beginning to learn
about the dog and developing back and forth communication so that it all
starts to make sense to both of us.

Maybe it's the communication factor that makes something so counterintuitive
suddenly make sense once you try it and see it work? 
Dogs, it turns out, are naturally adept at inferring things from human
gestures, probably as a side effect of domestication. So while the treat has
a function as a motivator/reinforcer under applied operant conditioning, the
hand movements are performing another function to help the dog understand
what is wanted. The process seems to help me engage with the dog and focus
on communicating with the dog as much as it gets the dog to engage with me.

hth,

Tami

On 07/02/2015 12:34 PM, Kaye Kipp via nagdu wrote:
> I have a question about that.  In theory, it sounds like it would work 
> really well, but then, if you're teaching your dog to ignore food in 
> your hand, what's the dog supposed to do when you're rewarding good 
> behavior with food out of your hand?  Maybe I'm missing a point, which 
> is entirely possible.  Lol.
>
> Kaye
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The 
> Pawpower Pack via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 8:23 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: The Pawpower Pack
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] clicker and scavenging/impulse control
>
> Tracy,
> I would first start with food in your hand. Clicking when he turns 
> away from it, even a little, and clenching your fist around it and 
> pulling it away when he tries to grab.  Once you have 10 reps of 10 
> with him ignoring it in your hand, put it on your knee.  You will want 
> to keep your hand close to your knee in case he tries to go for it, if he
does, cover the food.
> Again, work until he will ignore the food 10 out of 10 on your knee.  
> Then move it to the floor by your foot.
> Once he ignores it when you are sitting, you can try with it on the 
> ground I would advise you to use something stinky, like tuna, and put 
> it in a baggie, so even if he grabs it, you have a couple more seconds 
> to get it away from him.  You can also have and additional cue of the 
> sound of him touching the bag before he gets it.
>
> In the mean time, do you have a head collar for him, like a halti or 
> newtrix?  I would use that.  And a basket muzzle if you relieve him in 
> public places.
> I have struggled, and continue to struggle with Soleil on this issue.  
> I keep nose off the ground at a very high rate of reinforcement.  So 
> for example, I know she loves to scrounge and sniff around lamp posts.  
> She has learned that if she walks on by, I will give her something 
> good.  I do this fairly often because there are times when she will 
> ignore food and I won't know it.  So I want her to understand that the 
> majority of time, she will get good things for ignoring something she 
> finds very rewarding, and have build up enough good associations that 
> when I don't, she will ignore it anyway.
> You can use his regular food for this training.  Instead of giving it 
> in his bowl, you can use it to train.
> @Let me know if this is clear as mud. I might need to drink more tea 
> before explaining things next time!
>
>
>   Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 2, 2015, at 9:59 AM, Tracy Carcione via nagdu 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> OK, I've been reading the blog Rox sent, and it has a section on 
>> impulse control!
>>
>> It sounds like what I would do is put some food on the floor, far 
>> from me and Krokus, but where he can see it.  Then I c&t for not 
>> going for the
> food.
>> If he goes for the food, I catch him, turn around, and take him far 
>> away for
>> 10 seconds, then we come back and start over.
>>
>> Gradually, we get closer to the food, over a period of days or weeks, 
>> I guess.Have I got this right?
>>
>> Since I can't stop working him in the meantime, and NYC is a garbage 
>> dump, will my efforts be ruined by him picking up junk when we're 
>> out, and is there anything I can do about that?
>>
>> This is pretty exciting, especially if it works.
>>
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
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