[nagdu] Sidewalk-less walking?

Fri Jul 3 23:48:57 UTC 2015

Jody,
We have several trails on our property; my hubby mows them through the fields, 
so it's like walking on a lawn with berries and wild flowers, trees  and small 
bushes on either side. Hunter and my last dog MoMo learned them by name. I 
also taught them the mailbox, which is like you say, a great way to confirm 
that we're really home before coming up our long driveway. He knows the barn, 
the pond shelter, several neighbors' places and now the new ramp Rich built to 
the back porch. He doesn't know one tenth of the places my first two dogs 
knew, because with them I was living in Philadelphia and then in a little town 
just outside Philly.

Everything has its trade-offs, but I lived independently for over 20 years 
before we moved to the country. Someone said something about running into 
strangers on those isolated country roads. I had lots more encounters with the 
criminal element in Philadelphia than in the years I've been in the country. 
Not that it isn't a possibility, but that's been my experience.
Donna & Hunter

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jody Ianuzzi via 
nagdu
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 10:58 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Jody Ianuzzi
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Sidewalk-less walking?

Hi Donna,

The crushed shell is a nice surface.  It does not get muddyy and it drains 
well after it rains.  The county comes through every few weeks and regrades it 
so it is always level.  When we walk on it both Walker and I make a crunching 
sound with our feet.  I can hear when Walker is walking on grass or the road. 
At the end of the street it is paved for the last 25 feet or so so I can tell 
when I am approaching the T intersection of the road.

For the first two years of Walker's training we lived in a suburban 
neighborhood with sidewalks and even audible traffic signals.  I was very 
familiar with the area so we could train on thee local streets.

The first thing I taught walker here was to "Find the gate".  That way when 
walking up and down the street I can have him find home by asking him to find 
the gate.  I can also have him locate the mailbox which has raised numbers on 
the side so I can confirm our location.  I have also taught him to find the 
barn and find the garden.    Now if I could just teach him to leave the manure 
alone things would be great.  hahahaha

JODY ??
thunderwalker321 at gmail.com

"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes." 
DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)

> On Jul 2, 2015, at 6:51 PM, Danielle Ledet via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
> wrote:
>
> Donna, this sounds exactly like where I live now. I can't see how I
> would transition to a new school with this situation. Jody, wow.
> Howdid you owner train in this situation? Most of the roads here are
> narrow and covered in small gravel so it's kind of difficult telling
> pavements from hard packed dirt. Not much traffic so I find it hard to
> tell where there is a roade to cross or turn. I didn't really work my
> dogs here though we did do some sidewalkless work. First dog, great at
> it but then again he was solid as a rock. Second dog, didn't prefer it
> but would do fine and I always bought a folding cane along just in
> case she started to drift. she took, could go anywhere and wasn't
> intimadted by any situation.
>
>
>> On 7/2/15, Jody Ianuzzi via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello Donna,
>>
>> My guide dog is owner trained, not school trained.  Oh yes, I do know
>> all about country travel.
>>
>> We also live out in the country too.  We live on a dead end road
>> paved with crushed shells rather then blacktop so it is like gravel.
>> All the roads here have gullies about four feet from the road for drainage.
>>
>> There are only four houses on our road.  When a car does go by it is
>> almost always a neighbor who will stop and say hello.  I got in the
>> habit of approaching the car to talk.  This has built a bad habit in
>> my dog who thinks that if a car stops we should approach.  I have
>> conveyed this problem to my neighbors who now understand .  Now when
>> they stop to talk I will put my dog in a sit stay and we will talk from a 
>> short distance.
>>
>> Our electric fences are on the top of the fence for horses with the
>> middle and lower wires with no power so my dog doesn't get zapped.
>>
>> He is very good with the horses and he gives them space.  He is also
>> very good with the chickens only scattering them from time to time
>> for  the fun of it.  He will be fine if the cat sleeps in our room
>> but if he sees him in the yard he will chase him.  Of course this is
>> all when he is not in harness.
>>
>> When in harness I can thank the cats who will walk with us down the
>> road and offer a great working distraction.  He is very good about
>> not chasing them in harness.
>>
>> The country life is so wonderful, I don't miss city life at all.
>>
>> JODY ??
>> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
>>
>> "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."
>> DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)
>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2015, at 3:41 PM, Applebutter Hill via nagdu
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Jody and all,
>>> I think the country walk training at the schools is fine as far as
>>> it goes, but if you really live in the country like we do, there are
>>> things that can't be handled by staying to the left. First, we are
>>> on a dirt and gravel road
>>>
>>> which is badly rutted for many months and the patterns of those ruts
>>> can change. It's like a macramé of ruts. My last two dogs have had
>>> to pick their way around the deepest of them and cannot stay to the
>>> left or walk in a straight line at all. They do this very well. In
>>> fact, years ago someone asked me how my last dog  and I dealt with
>>> the ruts, and I said, "What ruts?" Of
>>>
>>> course, now I know what is going on.
>>>
>>> The other thing is that, when you're out far enough, there are very
>>> few cars.
>>> This sounds great and it generally is, but both of my dogs who have
>>> lived here went through an adjustment. They'd hear a car and get
>>> over to one side, but the car was close to a mile away. Obviously, I
>>> don't want to stand around all day waiting for cars that are nowhere
>>> near us.
>>>
>>> Some of the transitions that  you wish were actual corners are also
>>> difficult for the dogs to figure out. Some are so sweeping that it's
>>> hard to tell where the dog should stop to cross or make a decision
>>> to turn. Hunter wasn't all
>>>
>>> that impressed with the cows and horses either. The electric fences
>>> are low and not usually live, and I think he was concerned that they
>>> were coming for us. Not all dogs like walking on stone either, and
>>> most of the driveways are stone not Macadam or concrete because they
>>> are long and that would be very
>>>
>>> costly.
>>>
>>> I'm not complaining about our beautiful country home, but just
>>> saying that
>>>
>>> what passes for country travel at school isn't even close.
>>> Donna & Hunter
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jody
>>> Ianuzzi via nagdu
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 11:01 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Jody Ianuzzi
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Sidewalk-less walking?
>>>
>>> Whenever I walk down the road without sidewalks I walked down the
>>> left side of the road facing the traffic so that they can see me. If
>>> I walked on the right side of the road I would be afraid that they
>>> wouldn't see my dog and might hit him.
>>>
>>> When I was in training my instructor told me to walk down the left
>>> side of the road towards traffic and I think that's the generally
>>> excepted with pedestrians are supposed to walk.
>>>
>>> JODY ??
>>> thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."
>>> DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)
>>>
>>>> On Jul 1, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Daryl Marie via nagdu
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Julie, it does help!
>>>>
>>>> I think it's a matter of getting both Jenny and I thinking this is
>>>> normal.
>>>> On the way TO work, Jenny does beautiful guiding. We're right up
>>>> against the curb... even when I think we're not, I tell her to move
>>>> "in" (which to her is "All the way right", and I find she angles me
>>>> so my right foot is on the grass immediately.  There aren't a lot
>>>> of cars parked, and she's great about getting out of the way of
>>>> those that come up behind us... So getting there isn't really the
>>>> issue... but it's on the way back that seems to be the problem.
>>>> There are cars on the road nearly the entire way, and enough
>>>> traffic coming down the street that I don't think she or I feel
>>>> safe enough to walk on the road, which leaves us the parking lots
>>>> (I think it might be
>>>> better) or the grass (which Jenny doesn't seem to like).  I'm not
>>>> sure what's on the other side of the street, but whatever it is, it's 
>>>> LOUD!
>>>> There's a bunch of offices and industrial buildings.  I might just
>>>> head down that way and see what's there.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Julie!
>>>>
>>>> Daryl
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Julie J. via nagdu
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>>>> of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org> Cc: Julie J.
>>>> <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>> Sent: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 05:44:21 -0600 (MDT) Subject: Re: [nagdu]
>>>> Sidewalk-less walking?  Daryl, I do quite a bit of sidewalkless
>>>> travel, nearly daily. I've not had a dog who was skittish about it.
>>>> If it's possible, it's easier to walk with the curb/shoulder on
>>>> your left, so the dog is nearest the edge. If you're not sure about
>>>> your distance from the edge, you can cue a left turn and work the
>>>> dog to the edge, or if you use a folding cane you can use that. I
>>>> do this a lot in the beginning, but haven't done either for some
>>>> time. When approaching a parked car, I teach the dog to move around
>>>> the car on the street side, but to stop before entering the actual
>>>> lane of traffic. This puts us at the corner of the car. I listen
>>>> for traffic and cue my dog to proceed around when I don't hear any
>>>> traffic. When doing this I wait until traffic is clear both ways,
>>>> even the far lane which we shouldn't be near. I do this because if
>>>> I miss hearing a car I want there to be room for the drivers to
>>>> move. They won't be able to do that if there are two cars passing
>>>> plus the parked car. After passing the car, the dog will pick up
>>>> the line of travel at the curb again. With a new dog I offer a
>>>> couple of reminders and double check when I think we should be back
>>>> at the curb. If traffic is really heavy or I can't hear well
>>>> because of wind or construction or whatever, I will go around
>>>> parked cars on the yard side. I cue the dog left, work to the curb,
>>>> cue a right turn, go a bit and then turn right to the curb again.
>>>> For me this is a more difficult procedure because of mailboxes,
>>>> trees and several cars parked in a row or trucks connected to
>>>> trailers. My guess when we've passed the vehicle isn't always
>>>> accurate. It's not so bad with Monty because he's had enough
>>>> experience he can figure out what to do easily. Jetta is more
>>>> likely to follow my direction more closely or refusing, but not
>>>> knowing what to do instead. It sometimes means we employ trial and
>>>> error to figure out what to do. There have been a couple of times
>>>> when the road has been too narrow for my comfort with a lot of
>>>> traffic. I have walked on the yard/grass side of the curb/shoulder
>>>> of the road instead of the street side. My dogs catch on to this really 
>>>> quickly, but that could be because they have a lot of experience with 
>>>> sidewalkless travel.
>>>> It's a bit slower going because of the uneven footing and the need
>>>> to weave around trees and bushes and whatnot. I listen to the
>>>> traffic to keep me oriented in the correct direction. I haven't had
>>>> a problem with either Jetta or Monty wandering off into random
>>>> directions though. I do remember that Belle would move to the
>>>> absolute edge of the road or even up into a driveway and stop when
>>>> she thought a vehicle was approaching too closely.  After the
>>>> vehicle passed she'd continue on. Monty and Jetta don't do this,
>>>> but generally if a dog suggests something that is reasonable I
>>>> encourage it.  So they all develop their unique style of working
>>>> particular situations. Anyway, I hope there's something useful in
>>>> there somewhere. If you have other questions, please ask away.  I'm
>>>> happy to bounce ideas around until something clicks! Julie
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>
>
> --
> Danielle
>
> Email: singingmywayin at gmail.com
>
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