[nagdu] lots and lots of very overweight dogs.

[Raven Tolliver]

Vivianna,
I agree, the number of overweight guide dogs is very saddening. NAGDU
should put on a presentation about canine weight control, or ask one
of the schools to do it. The schools seem to be very assertive and
adamantly opposed to overweight guides, so a guide dog program should
be more than happy to put on a presentation or conference call about
weight control.

I lived with a woman whose guide dog is horribly overweight. I mean,
her dog's target weight is 58 lbs, and she weighed about 70 lbs. I
told her the dog might have a thyroid problem. And I also told her to
stop feeding her dog all the treats and doggie-friendly muffins and
breads. What is the point of that crap? She said that her dog just
loves food, and immediately jumped to, "Well, I can't afford the
testing." That was untrue for a period of time, and that is all I will
say about that.

So two problems should be tackled:
1. I don't think people know what their options are with testing or
alternative approaches to reducing weight.
2. I also think some people show their dogs love and appreciation by
feeding them goodies to their detriment. People don't know what
constitutes healthy or appropriate dog treats, or even what is an
excessive amount of treats.

The schools should have no problem talking about the issues of
recognizing weight gain, the health challenges caused by excessive
weight gain, options for testing and reducing weight, appropriate
exercise routines, and appropriate type and amounts of treats. They
cover it at schools, so they can take it to the streets.

I think weight gain is so prevalent now that it is the norm. It's
normal to be fat and sick. That was not polite or diplomatic, but that
is the truth. If people were encouraged to and taught how to educate
themselves, they could research and understand how to get off those
meds that cause weight gain, or ditch that diet that is only fueling
the fire brought on by weight gain, and adopting proper diets that
help the body heal itself and throw off the extra weight. Also, people
spend way too much time on their butts, and in turn, dogs do too.
The hot new thing to say is that sitting is the new smoking. And it
really is. People want to eat large servings of food, snack all day,
and feed their dogs the diet of an active dog, while they do little
activity each day. Then people want to give their dog all these baked
goods, chips, cookies, and extra canine crunchies, and just don't care
that their dog is overweight. Someone should let people know that food
intake should decrease with activity level.

Some guide dog schools will take the dog back for being overweight.
They usually try to work with the client, providing them with
information on exercise and diet for a period. If their efforts are
ineffective or not adopted, then they will take the dog back, get the
weight off, and consider returning the dog to the graduate, or just
return it if this is a first time offense, so to speak.

There are a number of reasons why many people and their pets are
overweight. That doesn't mean we shouldn't say something about it,
point it out, and actively promote and circulate ideas to stop this
state of ill-health. Too many people say live and let live. I can say
that so long as people aren't negatively affecting those around them
and the ones they take care of, but that's not the case here. This is
not an occasion to pity, explain, or justify, this is an opportunity
to educate. The first step to dealing with a problem is pointing it
out. If people feel that that is being critical, offensive, or rude,
that is unfortunate that they are missing the over-arcing issue at
hand. Vivianna was not measuring people's dogs, and she didn't rudely
approach anyone and accost them about their dog's weight, according to
her post. She is just showing that she was disturbed by the abundance
of overweight guides at convention, and understandably so. It is also
good that she is posing a solution rather than solely focusing on the
problem.
-- 
Raven
Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
www.1am-editing.com

You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
have or what you do.

Naturally-reared guide dogs
https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs

On 7/11/15, Tami Jarvis via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Well, if I were at a convention, I would hope other handlers wouldn't be
> feeling up my dog! With Mitzi, I was fairly casual about letting people
> interact with her, compared to a lot of handlers I know, but that didn't
> involve poking her ribs! Muscle weighs more than fat, so now that she's
> retired and not as active in general, she weighs less than she did at
> her youthful ideal fitness level but is a bit pudgy. I can still tell
> she has ribs, but I need to do better at being sure she gets exercise.
> Even when she was perfectly fit, people would ask if she was getting fat
> when her coat was grown out, especially if I had just done a real
> thorough brushing. Then I would get her to a groomer and she would look
> as trim as she was, at least for a couple of weeks. /lol/ Loki is a
> gangly adolescent, so to people who miss the obvious signs of puppyhood,
> it probably looks like I'm starving him even when he's fluffy. /shrug/
>
> There do seem to be a lot of guides on regular medication these days,
> and some of those meds can cause weight gain. Turns out a lot of blind
> people have additional issues requiring medications which cause weight
> gain, too, even though they and their dogs get tons of exercise and eat
> healthy diets. That's true of the able-bodied population, too, as are
> variations of metabolism without other influences.
>
> Meanwhile, even an observer with good vision couldn't make an accurate
> evaluation of a group of dogs with varying coat thickness, muscle
> density, build, age and gender. To decide there's a plague of obesity
> due to negligence would require getting case histories, lists of
> medications, and a bunch of other information even once you've
> determined a given dog is carrying excess fat. Maybe there are handlers
> out there who will volunteer that sort of information to someone met at
> convention. Hi, how's it going, my dog is supposed to weigh 72 pounds
> but weighs 92 pounds, what about those Mets...
>
> Anything I've read lately talks about BMI (body mass index) and
> dismisses weight as a general indicator of whether the dog is properly
> fed and fit. Of course, I've mostly been looking for information about
> growing puppies, so that may have something to do with it. If you know
> your adult dog's weight when it's at a good BMI, then you know the
> weight range that is healthy for your dog. That will be consistent
> during the dog's prime barring other health factors.
>
> I'm sure there are handlers out there who simply overfeed their guides
> and don't get them enough exercise. Programs that routinely track
> weights and other health factors might provide statistical data showing
> whether or not there's an epidemic of overfed, underexercised dogs in
> the populations they track. I would bet the programs include education
> about the health risks associated with obesity. Which is not to say more
> education wouldn't be both useful and interesting, and it may inspire a
> lax handler or two to do better with their dogs' weight management.
>
> Meanwhile, I sincerely hope there doesn't get to be an epidemic of
> handlers checking out all the dogs to find out if they're fat or fluffy.
>
> Tami
>
>
>
>
>
> On 07/11/2015 11:59 AM, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu wrote:
>> Valerie,
>> Very well said.  I think it's most important to mind our own business.
>> None of us is perfect and I personally prefer to work on my own issues or
>> my dogs than to point fingers at other teams.
>> I was not at the convention and anyway I can't see well enough to know if
>> a dog is fat unless I touch them.
>> There could be reasons for a dog being overweight.  Thyroid disease is
>> very common among labs and goldens.  Some dogs are very fluffy, and the
>> fur can look like fat.  Some dogs, like my Soleil, are extremely musculer.
>> I think it's good to have perhaps a presentation or discussion round table
>> from handlers with different lifestyles.
>> For example an active handler who walks miles daily, a handler which is
>> less active and maybe a person who only goes for leasure walks or with a
>> sighted person in the car.  It would help people perhaps get ideas about
>> ways to work and exercise their dogs to keep mind and body healthy.
>> As for the rate of blind people being overweight, once again, that's not
>> my business.  It's pretty objectifying if you are looking at people and
>> making judgements about their physical wellbeing.  Weight is a very
>> personal issue, and a person's weight does not determine their physical
>> health.
>> If people would like to become healthier, that's their decision and I know
>> the federation has workshops on exercises or sports you can do if there is
>> interest.
>> And yes, programs, I'm especially thinking of GEB here, have taken dogs
>> back because of being overweight.
>>
>>
>>   Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jul 11, 2015, at 1:11 PM, Valerie Gibson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> First allow me to say that i believe your post was a bit ill worded and
>>> came across as somewhat rude.  The person(s) that you spoke of are
>>> probably on this list, and many people get touchy when you criticize them
>>> or their dogs like that.
>>>
>>> That being said, I understand where you're coming from, though I may have
>>> worded it a bit more gently.  To me, your post is just screaming
>>> offensive, which might put people's guards up.
>>>
>>> I have a question for you though.
>>>
>>> Did you talk to the owners of the dogs in question privately?  You want
>>> the NAGDU to say something at next convention, but what about us on an
>>> individual basis?
>>>
>>> The truth is obesity is a very sad and common problem among dogs, and not
>>> just the guide dogs.  One would think that guide dogs should suffer from
>>> it less because they are supposed to be more active than the average pet.
>>>
>>> Therefore I believe the more relivent question is, how often are people
>>> working their dogs or giving their dogs adequate exersize, which would
>>> cut down on obesity?
>>>
>>> Another thing, you don't "know" how much an individual dog should weigh.
>>> There is a breed average, but some dogs fall above or below that.  My
>>> akita is rather large for his breed, so to say he's overweight would be
>>> highly offensive to me.
>>>
>>> If you're going by the method of looking at the ribs of the dog to
>>> determine obesity, that's at least better.
>>>
>>> I know i'm stating something that everyone on here should know, and maybe
>>> i'm the only one who had hackles raised after reading this, but unless
>>> you talked with these owners of overweight dogs personally, privately and
>>> with care and concern, I see no point in going on a public list to point
>>> the finger at people who have overweight dogs.  We all may not know of
>>> whom you speak, but perhaps the people with dogs remember you, and they
>>> might be wondering if you've just insulted them.
>>>
>>> If I appear more defensive than is warranted, my apologies. I'm running
>>> on hardly any sleep in the past two weeks. Perhaps I misinterpreted your
>>> message.
>>>
>>> I do understand your annoyance with overweight dogs and guide dogs who
>>> hardly work at all. I mean, what's the point of a guide dog if the dog is
>>> not being used and is gaining more weight than is healthy?  At the end of
>>> the day, a dog is a dog, and if you are, for some reason unable to work
>>> your dog, I'm sure you can gt a family member/friend/serivce to walk your
>>> dog for at least 20 minutes out of the day.  But I'd say that for any
>>> dog, not  just for guide dogs.
>>>
>>> Personally I don't think NAGDU should go out of it's way to step in for
>>> something that is basic dog ownership because as I've said, this is not a
>>> guide dog thing; it's a dog thing.
>>>
>>> I'm done rambling for now.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jul 11, 2015, at 10:52 AM, Vivianna via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hi all,
>>>> well, i just got back from the national convention.  i have to say that
>>>> there were lots of extremely overweight dogs there.  don’t people know
>>>> that this is the worst thing that you can do to your dog?
>>>> i am sure no school takes away dogs due to their weight or, they would
>>>> have had to bring busloads of crates to take away all of those poor
>>>> dogs.
>>>> if your dog should weigh 70 pounds, for example, but, he weighs 92
>>>> pounds and feels like a bowl of jelly, he certainly is not a healthy dog
>>>> and, most likely he is not being worked very much either.
>>>> i saw a woman feeding her dog potato chips during general session.
>>>> maybe NAGDU should have someone speak about the dangers of being fat
>>>> next year?  not sure it will do any good, but, i would go listen.
>>>> kevin wurly from WE fitness also said that, the blindness community has
>>>> the highest percentage of overweight people of any group of people, 90
>>>> percent of blind folks are overweight.
>>>> very interesting.
>>>> regarding the ownership of your dog.  i, frankly, don’t think any school
>>>> will take a dog because it’s overweight.
>>>> i actually called animal control on my neighbors and, they told me that
>>>> they could not do anything unless the dog has no food, water and
>>>> shelter.
>>>> in this particular case, the dog had none of the above but, they still
>>>> did nothing and, the neighbors still have the dog.
>>>> unfortunately, if someone really wants to abuse their dog, they will be
>>>> able to do it. all we can do is try and educate folks and hope they are
>>>> nice responsible people.
>>>>
>>>> Vivianna
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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