[nagdu] expectations of the blind & guide dog programs' admissionstandards

[Dan Weiner]

We shouldn't judge other peoples' skills only our own in my opinion.
Not criticizing you, just telling you what I have learned over a long
time--lol.
Everything I've criticized other guide dog users for comes back to bite me
on the butt as one time or another I did whatever I thought they were
doing--lol
I'm very glad GeB gave you a chance and frankly glad when I started out the
schools gave me a chance.
I think my travel and orientation was probably inadequate when I got a dog.
But you see this is where I differ with the current generation of o so
conscious o so self-assured blind guide dog candidates--smile.
Now it seems standard gospel that you must know how  to use a cane well and
so on and so on and so on,  before you get a dog.
But when I got one I did because I knew the cane was inadequate, or maybe I
was inadequate with the cane or both--lol and I needed to do something about
mobility. I wasn't just looking at the dog as maybe a furry extension to my
cane skills but a hope that using the dog and the training with one would
give me more independence.
And I think it did, though obviously we can get in to the fine details of
whether it 's the dog, my attitude, both either or neither that caused that.

So I remember hearing blind people pontificating (Raven, I'm not implying
anything about you or anyone else on the list, just read further and you'll
see), about how oh this one shouldn't have a dog, that one shouldn't have a
dog, so on. Meanwhile some of the people who in quotes "should" have a dog
would be impatient with the dog and send the dog back after six moneths and
the ones who "shouldn't" have a dog loved that dog 'till it's dying day and
the dog was a major factor in motivating them to get out and about.

Some people who in quotes "should have a dog' and who had good orientation
in my opinion didn't love their dogs, they didn't even like them and thought
of them as a tool and were very mechanistic, so if I were running a school
they would have gotten a lecture about how a dog has emotions and need
affection and all that...I suppose you should all be glad I'm not running a
school then as maybe my approach is different than say many of you might
have.

Oh and since I didn't wiegh in on the question, for the record I'm for full
and complete ownership of our guide dogs...aren't you glad you asked--lol

Just some ruminations here anyway, take care guys.

Dan the man, Parker the nut

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
via nagdu
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 5:57 AM
To: nagdu
Cc: Raven Tolliver
Subject: [nagdu] expectations of the blind & guide dog programs'
admissionstandards

I can't speak for all schools. But I think some schools have low standards
because they have low expectations. I have heard stories about students who
have graduated from programs and certainly shouldn't have. I can't speak to
them, I can only speak to my personal experiences with GEB. And this is in
no way bashing GEB, the instructors, or the graduates. These are merely my
observations and experiences.

First, I confess I should not have received a guide dog because at the time
I applied, I had poor mobility skills. I was never comfortable crossing
traffic-lighted intersections, and I hoped that the field rep who came to do
my home interview and video would not ask me to do any street work on busy
roads. Fortunately for me, the person didn't. The field rep recorded me
walking a route on my college campus, which was pretty much like walking
through a residential neighborhood because it was a small campus.

During guide dog training, I scared the hell out of my instructor. It was
just once, but I was ready to cross a super busy street. For a few seconds
nothing was coming, so I thought it was okay to go. I told the Golden Guy
forward. He stepped off the curb, because ... well, nothing was coming. And
my instructor nearly had a heart attack. I played it off like I was just
joking, and wanted to test the intelligent disobedience thing. And I ended
up getting an in-depth lecture about the ins and outs of traffic training.
When I got home with my dog, I admitted to my O&M instructor that I
struggled to cross busy streets by myself, and we needed to work on it. I
mean, before the dog, it was just me. But after training, I wasn't just
handling some inanimate object while crossing the street, I was using a
living, breathing creature whose life and well-being I was responsible for.
If anything horrible happened to him because of poor judgment on my part, I
wouldn't be able to forgive myself. So I'm one of the people who faked it to
make it.
It's great that I was responsible enough to admit my weakness and improve my
travel skills before even daring to put my dog's life at risk, but at the
time, I really felt I shouldn't have graduated with a guide dog.

In my class, a few other people shouldn't have graduated and ended up
leaving with dogs, or at least shouldn't have left with their specific dog.
One guy was a previous student of Leader and had been sent home without a
dog. So GEB takes him in and gives this guy a dog. This guy has horrible
orientation skills. I mean, maybe he's one of those people who was
well-oriented outside and completely lost indoors, but ... I didn't
understand. It was a 26-day program, and 3 weeks in, this guy acted like he
knew where absolutely nothing was located in the building where we waited
while other teams were out on route. He acted like the place was rearranged
everyday. And there was no excuse. There were 2 deaf-blind students there
whose orientation skills were pretty flawless, and this guy ... I guess he
didn't care. Idk. He graduated with a dog, and the dog ended up going back
to GEB and was rematched with someone else all within a year.

This is to say that I don't think the trainers are well-versed in
appropriate or sufficient orientation/travel skills. Their job entails
training dogs and telling people how to work with them, I'm willing to bet
most guide dog schools' trainers know little about O&M training and what
level travel skills someone should have when they are working a guide dog.
They see when a person makes a mistake, but don't know how to recognize when
to crock it up to poor traveling skills.

In addition, I think certain schools want to give people or the dogs the
benefit of the doubt. They're under stress, so they did this.
They're in a new environment, so can you really expect them to do this well?
You're just here to learn to work a dog, the other stuff will come later
when you get home. No one has said these things, but by their actions and
attitudes, they may as well have.

Again, not knocking GEB, but some of the things they did during training
pretty much screamed, "We got low expectations." If they have changed any of
this, please correct me. I would be delighted to know that this is no longer
the case.
1. During the 2 Juno-walks, the instructors didn't require us to decide when
to cross the street. They said: "Tell Juno forward," or something along
those lines.
During those walks, we were not expected to judge traffic or make calls.
Those who have done Juno walks with dogs might have had a different
experience.
2. The instructors served us our meals.
This was incredibly shocking to me. I've been to a training center for the
blind twice, and I expected that at GEB, we would line up at a counter and
someone would serve food onto our plates and we would have to find our way
to a table while carrying our food. Nope. We all sat down, the instructors
actually brought us our plates, and even poured our drinks! How old are we?
I mean, I get that it could get a bit disastrous with people not knowing the
lay out, some people having multiple disabilities, and when you throw dogs
in the mix, it could get complicated and stressful. But that's life. If the
rehab training centers do it, the guide dog schools should, too.
3. There was one day where I was the last person eating in the dining room,
and a staff member who was there with me had to run downstairs to do
something. This person told me to stay in the dining room until he came
back. I piped up because I thought it was ridiculous that I couldn't just
leave when I felt like it. Nope.
I never really noticed or thought about it before, but whenever a student
got up from the table to leave the dining room and go downstairs, an
instructor or staff member would magically appear to watch you go down those
eleven steps because God forbid you might fall. For people who have balance
issues, I understand. But for your regular blind Joe, I don't see the need
for it.

That is just some of the things I noticed during training. It's possible
that the things I discussed simply depend on the staff manning a certain
class. It could also happen at other guide dog schools, but I can only speak
to the one I attended.
Maybe I'm making mountains out of molehills. But it is little things like
this that show what the schools think we are capable of doing successfully.
I mean, what am I supposed to think when people are reluctant or refuse to
let me get my food and successfully carry it back to a table to find a seat?
How should I feel when I'm not allowed to descend a single flight of stairs
on my own. It makes me feel like a liability.

I'm not trying to paint a bad picture of GEB by any means, but I'm not a
loyal client who won't acknowledge the school's flaws. If I had to get a
guide dog again for the first time, I'd choose GEB. They were able to give
me what I was looking for in a guide dog school at the time and matched me
with the perfect guide dog, and I appreciate the foundation they instilled
in me for dog training and canine care.

All this to make my point that guide dog schools likely have low
expectations of their blind clients, and so they have low standards of who
they are willing to accept and graduate. They don't know what it looks like
or means to be an independent blind person, nor do they understand the ways
in which they are robbing us of our independence.
And because they don't allow us to fully demonstrate the extent of our
responsibility and independence, they exercise paternalism in varying
degrees.
How do we as graduates change this? How do we demonstrate that we are not
liabilities? How do we bring about a change in attitude so that schools
treat us as independent individuals.
--
Raven

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