[nagdu] dogs and canes

Wed Jul 15 14:30:12 UTC 2015

I have never been to convention, so I can't speak on the cane and dog
interactions; however, I have used a cane and dog in very crowded
places. I have always relied more on auditory rather than tactile cues
from my cane so I tried to listen for and avoid people before my cane
ever made contact. Of course, this is not always possible, especially
in crowded, noisy areas. I prefer the constant contact method, sliding
my cane along the ground, so my cane generally would only make contact
with people's feet. Even so, I have been accused of tripping people on
purpose... I have also been criticized by NFB members for using
constant contact, a folding cane, a rolling tip, a cane that was
supposedly too short, and a dog. I'm never going to make everyone
happy and I don't bother trying. There are people however who don't
take into account that their canes can cause some damage and they must
use them responsibly. I know some people prefer to tap their canes
which is fine if it works for them, but it's important not to lift the
cane to high or you will miss valuable information and could cause
injury to others.

Walking through high school hallways, most people are not even looking
in front of them so I could never rely on people moving out of my way.
because of this, my dog has learned to pay close attention to the
movements of other people. I've had people walk directly into my dog
both when we were walking or standing still. Similarly, people have
tripped over my cane because they don't bother to look in front of
them when turning a corner or suddenly changing direction. My dog has
also learned that a cold, wet nose can be used to encourage people to
move out of his way. This isn't necessarily great but he's smart
enough to know it works.

Danielle, Thai, and Bonnie (GDF puppy in training)

On 7/15/15, Danielle Burton via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I think that dogs that work on the let stay to the left in order to make
> sure of good clearance on the right side. They can also see obstacles coming
> and things on right sie in revn to where you are so it is easier for them to
> guide in this way.  I personally would not try to alter the patern of my
> dog's guiding in this way because it could lead to danger if I corrected for
> this thinking the dog was staing to the let out of  habit. There you wrl
> beobstacle the dog is avoiding. Also, my dog when I from got her would get
> too close to the right curb and my foot would stumble on the edge. After a
> crrection or 2 I no longer have this isue but I fear i I would try to have
> more dog stay to the right she would accidentally do this in an effort to do
> as I ask. However, if it works for you then by all means teach your dog
> this.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 15, 2015, at 9:00 AM, Marianne Denning via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I think, just as not everyone is perfect with their canes, not
>> everyone is perfect with their dog either.  I want to know any tips
>> and tricks for all of us to move around.  My dog and I are used to
>> travelling in a world of sighted people so my dogs have always
>> expected people to get out of their way.  I am sure people who use
>> canes have a similar thought process.  Since this was my first
>> convention I was caught off guard by the whole experience.
>>
>> Since my dog is now trained to my right side she follows the right
>> much better but when I got her, and all my earlier dogs, were trained
>> to the left and getting them to work to the right was a big battle.
>> How do you get your dogs to work to the right side in indoor
>> situations?
>>
>>> On 7/15/15, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I wonder if a Monitor article about cane technique, and the reasons why a
>>> technique is useful, would be helpful?  I find, when someone tells me a
>>> technique and explains why it works well, it sticks with me a lot better
>>> than just telling me to do X, or, worse yet, that I'm wrong because I do
>>> Y.
>>> I may indeed be wrong, but explain why your way is better.
>>> I don't feel particularly qualified to write such an article, but, from
>>> the
>>> posts I've read, there are people on this list who are.
>>>
>>> And, if it could be done tactfully, I'd mention it's good to respect
>>> other
>>> pedestrians and make some effort not to trip them up.  Should go without
>>> saying, but doesn't seem to.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 8:31 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Julie J.
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] dogs and canes
>>>
>>> Raven,
>>>
>>> The tap technique cuts down on the number of things your cane gets caught
>>> in.  Indoors I don't think it makes much difference really, but outside
>>> sidewalk cracks would be problematic with a small metal tip and sliding.
>>> That said, the two point touch cane technique I was taught only has you
>>> lifting the cane an inch or two.  The cane shouldn't go over top
>>> someone's
>>> shoes, let alone hit a dog in the head.  It's not a javelin.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>> Sport style guide harnesses now available! send inquiries to:
>>> julielj at neb.rr.com
>>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
>>> available! Get the book here:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:17 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Raven Tolliver
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] dogs and canes
>>>
>>> the thing I don't understand is why there is any reason to raise your
>>> cane
>>> up off the ground while using it. Why do so many cane users prefer to
>>> tap-tap rather than gliding their cane over the floor?
>>> Tapping sure helps other people know where a cane user is, that's for
>>> sure.
>>> But while that thing is in the air, it's practically a weapon.
>>> Gliding the cane is far more considerate of people and working dogs.
>>>
>>> That tapping technique annoys me to no end, and I can't rely on that
>>> method
>>> anyway because I prefer to use a folding cane with the rolling ball tip.
>>> So
>>> if I did any tapping, I'd be replacing cane tips up the wall.
>>> --
>>> Raven
>>> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
>>> www.1am-editing.com
>>>
>>> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you have
>>> or
>>> what you do.
>>>
>>> Naturally-reared guide dogs
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>>>
>>>> On 7/14/15, S L Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Eva is still the same 53 pounds she was when I got her 15 months ago
>>>> so, she
>>>>
>>>> can have treats.  I am careful how much food to feed her.  If she
>>>> shows any
>>>>
>>>> sign of gaining weight, I cut the food a bit.  I actually use treat
>>>> rewards
>>>>
>>>> when working her, especially when teaching her to find new places such
>>>> as we
>>>>
>>>> did last week in the hotel.  I use very small low calorie treats for
>>>> this.
>>>> I give her medium bones to help keep her teeth and gums healthy.  Just
>>>> as it
>>>>
>>>> is with people, everything is fine in moderation.  You don't have to
>>>> deprive
>>>>
>>>> the dog, just be careful.  I've done this with all my dogs for forty
>>>> years now and never had one of them be overweight.
>>>>
>>>> Sandra and Eva, who loves her treats
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vivianna via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 7:03 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Cc: Vivianna
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] dogs and canes
>>>>
>>>> I say, how about some pats for the dogs and,, letā?Ts keep our dogs
>>>> nice and
>>>>
>>>> fit and lay off the treats.
>>>> and, i saw the leftovers from dogs relieving themselves in the hotel
>>>> twice.
>>>>
>>>> Vivianna
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 14, 2015, at 5:21 PM, S L Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Debby:
>>>>>
>>>>> That is a good idea.  Some discussion of tips and tricks for canes ad
>>>>> dogs and convention would definitely help ease the stress for the
>>>>> people and the dogs.  Even though I was at the plaza, I went back to
>>>>> my room in the afternoon to let Eva eat, play, rest and relax.  Then
>>>>> we were off again.
>>>>> By
>>>>> the end of the week, I could tell she was a bit stressed and tired.
>>>>> At times I did wish for more volunteer help just so I could take the
>>>>> pressure off Eva and go sighted guide.  That is definitely something
>>>>> that is needed for next year.  Not having enough sighted help in a
>>>>> strange place adds to the stress.  I was amazed at how well Eva
>>>>> worked and am extremely proud of her.  I also second what you said
>>>>> about the other conventions.  I used to be a member of that
>>>>> organization too and often encountered barking and growling dogs.
>>>>> Also, at the NFB we did not have dogs relieving themselves in the
>>>>> hotel.  So, as Debby said, give all the wonderful guide dogs an extra
>>>>> few treats and hugs for a job well done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sandra and Eva
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Marianne Denning via nagdu
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 5:38 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Cc: Marianne Denning
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] dogs and canes
>>>>>
>>>>> I did a few cane dances too.  We tried to avoid them but it didn't
>>>>> always work.  I think some tips and tricks for dog handlers and cane
>>>>> users might make the convention experience better.  My dog was very
>>>>> stressed by the end of the convention.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to commend all of the dogs and their handlers.  I attended the
>>>>> other group's convention several years ago and almost every time we
>>>>> were in a large group one dog was start barking and then others would
>>>>> join in.  I did not hear one dog bark at any of the general sessions
>>>>> or other meetings I attended.  Everyone give your dog an extra treat
>>>>> for that.  (smile)
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/14/15, S L Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eva and I hated all the canes too.  Sometimes they would walk three
>>>>>> or four
>>>>>>
>>>>>> people all in a row not leaving the dog a safe path to travel.  When
>>>>>> we were
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sitting in meetings the canes would hit Eva as she stayed quietly
>>>>>> tucked under my chair.  The canes were horrible in the exhibit hall.
>>>>>> I especially
>>>>>>
>>>>>> got upset when the cane user would keep hitting Eva when I had told
>>>>>> them she
>>>>>>
>>>>>> was there.  I can't tell you how many times she hid her head behind
>>>>>> my legs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to keep from being hit in the face by someone holding their cane too
>>>>>> high off the floor.  When  using a cane in a crowded convention
>>>>>> around guide dogs, the cane user should glide the cane instead of
>>>>>> lifting it up and tapping it.  Eva ad I hate hate hate canes,
>>>>>> especially the extremely long ones loved by so many cane users, they
>>>>>> are a danger to the rest of us.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> was tripped and fell many times because of the canes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Debby Phillips via nagdu
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 10:39 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users ;
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Cc: Debby Phillips ; jerupert at outlook.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] dogs and canes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jack, just seeing this.  We're home now.  Nova was a little
>>>>>> freaked out by all the canes, too.  I just tried to talk softly to
>>>>>> her all the time, telling her what a good girl she was, and
>>>>>> encouraging her to keep walking.  Her biggest issue was other dogs.
>>>>>> She was always wanting to pull over to visit.  Who knows?
>>>>>> We might have come across each other.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One suggestion for next time, and I did try to do this as much as I
>>>>>> could, but it was more difficult, as my husband and I were at the
>>>>>> Clarion.  That is, give your dog some breaks.  Go to your room and
>>>>>> just give him some down time; play with him a bit.  This will relax
>>>>>> him, and you too maybe.  Sometimes we would find a semi quiet place
>>>>>> to sit and just be together.  A friend of mine also got an extra key
>>>>>> to her room and we would go there sometimes too just to give Nova a
>>>>>> time out.  It's hard to do with a busy convention schedule, but I
>>>>>> decided a long time ago that if my dog was stressed out, it was
>>>>>> worth giving her time to settle down and relax a little.  Before I
>>>>>> came to NFB, I was in ACB and have been
>>>>>> going to conventions on and off since 1981.    Peace,    Debby
>>>>>> and Nova
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>>>>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>>>>> (513) 607-6053
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
>> (513) 607-6053
>>
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