[nagdu] Impulse control
Cindy Ray
cindyray at gmail.com
Thu Jul 16 23:38:13 UTC 2015
I had a trainer work this method with me with old Wayne. For me it did not work. I may have been to predictable because he was prepared to win the prize but not really to speed up noticeably.
Cindy
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via nagdu
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 12:19 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Tracy Carcione
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Impulse control
Wow, that's great! It does seem counter-intuitive, but, hey if it works... A trainer tried having me do that, but he said I shouldn't do it on my own, maybe because I was clicking Krokus on the move? Or maybe your trainer has more confidence in you than mine did in me.
You should share your hint with the list. Pokiness is a very common problem.
Tracy
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna Lewis via nagdu
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 12:08 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Deanna Lewis
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Impulse control
Hi Tracy,
I click when Mambo is maintaining a good pace. So, I click and then stop and give him a kibble, then continue on as quickly as possible. The concept seemed very odd to me, and like it definitely would not help, but it really has helped! You want to make sure that you vary the amount of time between clicking, so go 10 paces, then maybe 15, then 8, then 20, and so on; you don't want the dog to slow down and expect the click. Almost as soon as I clicked for a good pace, he knew what I wanted and shot off like a bullet!
Hope this makes sense. Let me know if you have other questions.
Deanna and Mambo
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via nagdu
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 11:35 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Tracy Carcione
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Impulse control
That's great! When are you clicking him, to get him to speed up? Krokus has pretty much stopped being poky, but it would still be good to know how clicker could help.
Tracy
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Deanna Lewis via nagdu
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 11:08 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Deanna Lewis
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Impulse control
Tracy,
Thanks for posting these tips again. I've been using the clicker to help increase Mambo's slow pace, and (pun intended) the clicker is really starting to click with him!
Such a great tool to have, now I wish I had used it more often when I had Pascal.
Deanna and Slow Mo Mambo
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via nagdu
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 10:25 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Tracy Carcione
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Impulse control
OK, if you want. It was a big discussion not so long ago. I'll paste the message I sent to the TSE clicker list.
Many thanks to Julie J for laying her method out step-by-step. This is basically her method, plus hints from Rox and Tami. Thanks to all of you.
Late in class, Krokus discovered that I'm not fast enough to keep him from grabbing stuff off the ground, and turned in a flash into a scavenging monster. I wasn't having much success correcting him for it, so I asked a clicker trainer I know whose skills I respect to explain her method to me in detail. I have been using it for about 10 days, and am seeing improvement, so I thought I'd share.
When this topic came up before, someone asked how you could click for a negative, not picking up food. The positive is clicking for focussing on the handler, instead of the food.
Here's the method I've been using:
Choose a high-value treat. I'm using the treats my trainer recommended, bacon-flavored Pet Botanics from PetSmart. Krokus thinks they're fantastic. BACON!!
Choose a not-too-exciting food, like lettuce. I chose a large, uncooked noodle.
Henceforth, I'll call these 2 things treat and food, respectively.
Put the food in something where the dog can see and smell it, but not instantly grab it. I put it under a small colander.
Put the covered food where the dog can see/smell it, but out of reach. I put Krokus on leash, and put the covered food 5-6 feet away. When Krokus moved toward the food, I held the leash firmly, but did not correct. I am a tree to which he is tied. When the tension in the leash slackens, click and treat, c&t. When he looks toward me, c&t. When he turns toward me, c&t. The beginning of the training has a high rate of reward. After a bit of c&t where Krokus had his back to the food, I called him to come and sit facing the food, c&t.
When the dog is ignoring the food at a distance, move closer. Within a couple sessions, Krokus would lie with his paws by the colander, but still focussing on me.
When he's good at that, uncover the food and put it by your foot, ready to move your foot fast to cover it if the dog goes for it.
When he's good with that, choose a somewhat more interesting food. I chose either a Cheezit cracker or a bit of fruit.
When the dog is good with that, change things up. Do the exercise in another room. Put the food near the edge of a table. Go outside. Get a partner to play with the food near the dog, but ready to close his hand around it if the dog goes for it.
Remember that "slow is fast" and that distance and duration are separate things.
Twice I moved too fast and Krokus grabbed the food. One person I talked to puts hot sauce on the food, so it's not a happy grab. Me, I scolded Krokus, and once corrected him. Then I backed up a bit and got back to work.
Ignoring food is not a new concept for Krokus. He was very good at it at the start of class. This might be letting us move along faster than if he was just learning it. On the other hand, I do tend to rush my clickering, and have to remember not to.
The last part of this is the trickiest, rewarding him for not picking up stuff when we're out and about. I am c&t-ing if he walks past a place where he has often dived before, or giving him lots of praise instead, if I've forgotten to bring the clicker and treats.
I am noticing definite improvement. He is diving a lot less. It's still 2 steps up and one step back, but we're moving in the right direction.
One big plus of this method is that we're both happy when we've finished a session. I'm happy because he hasn't grabbed the food. Even if he has, I've gond back, and we've finished on a positive. He's happy because he's gotten lots of treats, and, oh yeah, ignored that food.
Because we're both happy, doing short sessions once or twice every day is not the chore the correction-based sessions were for me.
A couple weeks ago, I relieved Krokus before going into my office. When I got in, he started staggering and falling down. A coworker helped me get him to the emergency vet, where he spent the day being monitored and getting IV fluids to flush the poison out of his system. The vet thought he'd picked up a bit of marijuana on the street. People think it's funny when I say that, but I know it could just have easily been rat poison some scum put down to kill pigeons. I mean to get a handle on this scavenging, and I feel I'm making better progress using the clicker, and some corrections, than I was just using corrections.
Tracy
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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jody Ianuzzi via nagdu
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2015 10:13 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Jody Ianuzzi
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Impulse control
I think it would be great if Tracy posted to the list about how she taught Krocus impulse control. I think we all could benefit and if people aren't interested they can just delete the message. I am always interested in learning new things.
JODY 🐺
thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes." DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)
> On Jul 16, 2015, at 8:55 AM, Lisa Ison via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hey Tracy. That sounds totally awesome. Good luck working with your dog on impulse control. Please email me off list at L I SON 1273 at live.com and L is lowercase. I would like to learn how you did it with your dog so I can work with mine on the same thing.
>
> Lisa ison
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 16, 2015, at 8:49 AM, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I've been working on impulse control with the clicker every day.
>> Also, since February, I've been working with Krokus to stay in his
>> designated spot in the kitchen while I'm cooking.
>>
>> Last night, I dropped a piece of garlic bread I was getting ready to
>> put in the oven. Krokus was about 8 feet away, in his spot. He
>> didn't move. He didn't come rushing over to grab the bread before I
>> could pick it up. He got much praise, and a bacon-flavor treat.
>>
>> He's definitely getting more civilized around food.
>>
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
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