[nagdu] schools sharing info was Let me make it clear

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Mon Jul 20 18:38:22 UTC 2015


Hi Sandy.
How do you know they do these things?  Do you have evidence, or only
suspicions? And, if you have evidence, is it current?  Practices have
improved over the years, I think.
You may be right, but I have no evidence, one way or the other.
Tracy

> Hi Tracy:
>
> The trainer who told me this said they all share a lot during conventions
> when they spend a lot of social times together.  Obviously we're right
> there
> so if they see something, they are likely to discuss it with other
> trainers.
> I do know admissions offices share information.  I guess we wish it
> wouldn't
> happen but, I guess it is there is a natural inclination to gossip.  I was
> also told that all the schools get together to share training and breeding
> information.  They also take that opportunity to share informationabout
> graduates.  It is good in the case of someone who has abused or neglected
> their dog or someone who just isn't safe with a guide dog.  However, I do
> worry about them sharing if for some reason they just don't like a person
> for some reason.  I thought this last year when I was applying for another
> dog.  After GDF said they wouldn't replace my golden Tara, whom I'd worked
> for six years.  Tara was being retired due to hip dysplasia she'd had
> since
> age two and cataracts she'd had since age six.  She was eight when she
> retired.  I had worked her successfully and even pulled her through a very
> serious lack of confidence that almost caused her retirement at age four.
> Obviously I'd shown my total dedication to her and had spent a fortune on
> medications and therapeutic laser treatments on her hips.  I felt betrayed
> when they refused to replace her.   I felt a negative attitude from
> several
> of the other guide dog schools.  Yes, I do have MS and can't walk for long
> distances or go very fast and need a dog with a very light pull but, being
> matched by Pilot with Eva proves that even with my current limitations, I
> can be successful with a dog.  Thank God, Pilot didn't listen to any of
> the
> negative gossip from the other schools who thought I could not be
> successful
> with another dog.  It would have been horrible to be forced back to a cane
> after forty wonderful years with a guide dog.  I think the schools need to
> be much more open about their confidentiality policies and what they share
> with other schools.  A lot of stuff happens with board members, alumni
> council members, administrative and admissions staff and trainers at some
> of
> the schools.  I don't think the grad council members should have any
> personal information about any of us and they have no right to gossip
> about
> us with guide dog school staff.  There is an awful lot the schools are
> doing
> wrong and we definitely need to enforce a bill of rights that we be
> treated
> with dignity and respect.  We are consumers and without us, they wouldn't
> have jobs.
>
> Sandra and Eva
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tracy Carcione via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 11:17 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] schools sharing info was Let me make it clear
>
> I agree, there should be a box to check.  And there may be on the TSE
> application--I forget.
> But there's all kinds of sharing.  There's one admission office calling
> another school's admission office and asking for someone's records.
> And then there's 2 people meeting at the bar during a conference and
> gossipping.  Some people gossip, and some don't.  An institution can have
> a policy of protecting student confidentiality, and discipline or fire
> people who don't adhere to it, if they find out, but do they?  I don't
> know. I do know TSE is insistent on confidentiality.  And I also know some
> trainers gossip.  Does it affect who gets admitted or not?  I don't know.
> Tracy
>
>> Seems like it would be a breech of confidentiality, unless of course
>> it's
>> somewhere in the application that you agree to and sign.
>>
>> Perhaps I view it like for a job application.  Usually there is a box to
>> check if you give permission for them to contact a previous employer.
>> Maybe
>> if you don't give permission it counts against you, I don't know, but I
>> appreciate the opportunity to make that decision and to explain why I
>> don't
>> want that employer to be contacted.
>>
>> Julie
>> Sport style guide harnesses available. contact julielj at neb.rr.com with
>> questions or to order
>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
>> available! Get the book here:
>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: S L Johnson via nagdu
>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 9:28 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: S L Johnson
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] schools sharing info was Let me make it clear
>>
>> I've been told by many trainers over the years that the schools do share
>> information.  Anyone who thinks they don't, think again.  They all know
>> each
>> other and do not hesitate to share information.
>>
>> Sandra and Eva
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Julie J. via nagdu
>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2015 7:14 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Julie J.
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] schools sharing info was Let me make it clear
>>
>>     I think mostly I'm opposed to school's sharing info.  I think it
>> would
>> be difficult to separate out the gossip and dislike of someone from
>> actual
>> histories of abuse.  If someone switches schools, it is most often done
>> because there was an issue with the last program, they weren't satisfied
>> with the quality of the dogs, they didn't get along with staff, the
>> dog's
>> weren't healthy etc.  Sure sometimes people change schools due to
>> location,
>> a change in program policies or curiosity.  If someone wasn't satisfied
>> with
>> the quality of training and asked for a lot of follow up, which the
>> school
>> was resistant to provide, wouldn't it be easy for the next school to
>> hear
>> about how this blind person constantly complains and can never be
>> satisfied?
>>
>> Julie
>> Sport guide harnesses available. send inquiries to: julielj at neb.rr.com
>> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
>> available! Get the book here:
>> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: larry d keeler via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 9:17 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: larry d keeler
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Let me make it clear
>>
>> Debby, I wonder how that sort of thing can be addressed without
>> infringing
>> on our rights! I personally would love to see schools being able to
>> share
>> sertain things like abuse history or misuse of they're dogs. I've seen
>> many
>> examples where no one such as animal control is willing to step in and
>> stop
>> the abuse of a service animal!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debby
>> Phillips
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2015 8:14 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users;
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Debby Phillips
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Let me make it clear
>>
>> Marianne, I truly do not believe that ownership or not makes much
>> difference
>> in whether someone is going to abuse a dog or not.
>> What does concern me is this.  I knew of someone who got two dogs from a
>> school (where ownership was not offered).  Both dogs were not treated
>> well.
>> Then he got two dogs from Seeing Eye.  I was appalled, and told people
>> at
>> TSE that I was.  My opinion didn't matter, of course.  Even though I
>> lived
>> in the same town and saw the dogs.  I saw a beautiful German Shepherd
>> (ears
>> perked, tail wagging).  Within two months that dog lay growling when you
>> came near it.  I believe it did go to court, and the judge did not allow
>> the
>> dog to be taken.  Then this person went to Pilot.  At this point, I was
>> not
>> in much contact with that dog, but was told by reliable people that that
>> dog
>> didn't fare well, either.  The last time I knew of him having a dog, he
>> got
>> one privately trained.  I can't figure out why he got a second chance
>> EVER
>> at having a second dog.  If the schools have confidentiality rules, they
>> should at least be able to share with each other.  If a school knows
>> that
>> a
>> dog was abused, shouldn't there be some kind of policy that they would
>> let
>> the second school know? I don't know, maybe that's asking way too much.
>> I
>> just know that I
>> really really hate the thought of what happened to those dogs.
>> Debby and Nova
>>
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