[nagdu] Denying the dog a ride?--lol

Sun Jul 26 20:06:38 UTC 2015

I grant what you say, Michael, though I will say that nine times out of ten
that distinction is lost on everyone, I mean I had cab companies say when I
discussed that access denial is descrimination according to the ADA and so
on: "no we aren't refusing you a ride, the driver would have been perfectly
happy to take you, it's the dog that's the problem". I once got those exact
words--lol.

A wonderful Sunday to all.

Dan W.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
nagdu
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 3:30 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Cindy Ray
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Uber denies ride to blind man's service dog

You are quite incorrect about this whole thing. First of all, by and large
for me Uber has not been cheaper. Second, you do have recourse. First of
all, contacting Uber does get a response from Uber. They know now that this
is not acceptable. They are still not handling the situation in a preferred
manner, but I would say they are making the effort which they haven't been
before. Second, there is currently legal action going on that the NFB has
initiated, and in that action their assertion that they were different did
not fly in the court. They are now working with the legal teams to come up
with a response that will solve the problem. Third, their service is much
faster, so it is important to work out a deal with them so that those of us
who do use Uber can have transportation in a timely manner.

Michael, your point about the dog being refused the ride is well taken. I
know when I was refused mine, the dog didn't care much one way or the other.
He knows nothing about these rights and has none anyway. 
Cindy Lou Ray
cindyray at gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Gearry via
nagdu
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:03 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Bryan Gearry <bgearry at alaskafrontier.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Uber denies ride to blind man's service dog

I have been reading this string and many others concerning Uber. My
conclusion is this....you get what you pay for. The best way to solve this
problem is not to use them. I'm not saying using licensed cabs are any
better, but you have options and alternatives to lodge complaints and change
things. Uber doesn't work that way because it is unregulated. 
Quit whining about Uber and take a licensed cab, at least you have some way
to make formal and legal way of filing complaints.....Well this ought to
sure and get a response from the group!

By the way, this response does not go out to any one in particular, but it
does go out to the whole string and conversation of UBER..

On 7/26/2015 9:24 AM, Michael Hingson via nagdu wrote:
> Something we all should consider is the real concept of what is happening
here. Look at the subject line which states, "Uber denies ride to blind
man's service dog". The writer really gets it wrong. The ride, by
definition, was denied to the blind man because of his "service dog". The
dog was NOT denied the ride, but rather the person. The concept is simple:
He, or she, who denies me a ride because of my dog is really denying me, and
only me, the ride. Dogs do not have rights, people do.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Howard J. 
> Levine via nagdu
> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 9:40 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Howard J. Levine <WB2HWW at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Uber denies ride to blind man's service dog
>
> Hi if you are going to provide a public service to the public then you can
not say you won't provide service to persons with a handicap or aperson who
has a service dog. The service must be equal to service provided to the
public. I had problem with a local car company who had sent a car and would
not take me and Rhett, thay sent another car and I told then that was not
good enough, because it took about another hour for another cab to come and
I was on way to doctor's office. I had long talk with there councle and thay
not happy because thay found out that I could have gone to court and thay
would had lot problems. The botton line is if you are going to drive a car
for higher then you must pick up person with a service dog, that law no buts
about.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marianne 
> Denning via nagdu
> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 11:14 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Marianne Denning
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Uber denies ride to blind man's service dog
>
> A church or religious organization is covered under the first amendment
but an individual is not covered.  A Muslim mosque can refuse to allow dogs
into the worship service but a Muslim cannot refuse service in a cab,
restaurant or any other business that is a public establishment.  I have
taken my dogs into several restaurants run by Muslims and once they know it
is a service dog there has not been a problem.  I have never had a problem
with Uber either.  I know it happens and, I do not believe the driver can
deny the ride.  This is one of those gray areas that were not around when
the ADA was passed.  I know how I want it to turn out but it will need to
make its way through the courts.
>
> On 7/25/15, Jennifer Woods via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Thanks for explaining. That true and makes sense that if your going 
>> to drive a cab or uber you need to take service animals and should 
>> not be allowed to refuse people because of a service animal.
>> Jennifer
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2015, at 8:11 PM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>>
>> No, there isn't such a thing on their form. You are right about the 
>> religion thing, but they have agreed to drive passengers and that 
>> must include dogs, same as it is supposed to with cabs. The ones who 
>> drive their own cabs and the Uber "partners" believe that since they 
>> are contracted they are not obligated. Uber apparently makes it a little
easier for them to think that.
>> They can make such a choice, but they need to have consequences to be
faced.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer 
>> Woods via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 10:03 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Jennifer Woods <jenn.purplepuppy2 at icloud.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Uber denies ride to blind man's service dog
>>
>> I ask this question because I have never used über. Is there a place 
>> on the form when you register where you can put that you have a 
>> service dog so that if the person has allergies they can choose not 
>> to take that particular assignment?  I think the religious thing is 
>> some religions feel that dogs are unclean.
>> Jennifer
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Jenine Stanley via nagdu 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Maybe this was a misquote but why is the man filing a complaint with 
>> the EEOC? Is that the body in Maddison that handles these types of 
>> complaints or am I missing something?
>>
>> My husband took Uber this week and one of the drivers said they all 
>> got a series of memos instructing them to be prepared to carry 
>> service animals and if they had religious or medical reasons not to 
>> do so, they were to wait with the person. His driver also said it was 
>> suggested to carry a blanket or old sheet for the dog to lie on in 
>> the car. Of course since most of our dogs lie on the floor whenever 
>> possible, this wasn’t necessary but the driver was really excited to
convey this info to my husband and his dog.
>>
>> I think, like so many other things, this whole system is a work in
progress.
>> It’s not going to be perfect, yet we can expect it to be so without 
>> being unreasonable.
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>
>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2015, at 4:18 PM, Dan Weiner via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> You know cab access is so rampant it's not even funny, and now Uber 
>>> is getting in to the act, My god, won't be too long, folks, till we 
>>> won't be able to get any cab rrides with our dogs.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ginger 
>>> Kutsch via nagdu
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 2:55 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Ginger Kutsch
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Uber denies ride to blind man's service dog
>>>
>>> Uber denies ride to blind man's service dog
>>>
>>> NBC News
>>>
>>> Published: July 24, 2015, 10:52 pm
>>>
>>> Source:
>>> http://ksn.com/2015/07/24/uber-denies-ride-to-blind-mans-service-dog
>>> /
>>>
>>> MADISON, Wis. - A Madison, Wisconsin man says he was denied service 
>>> by an Uber driver because of his service dog.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It was the man's first time trying to use Uber, and he says it 
>>> couldn't have been a worse experience.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave Tolmie and Divit have been a pair for the last five-and-a-half
years.
>>> And Divit is far from your average dog.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tolmie was born blind, and he says his service dog, Divit, is a
blessing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thursday, Divit needed his nails trimmed, so Dave ordered an Uber 
>>> after first checking it's website to make sure Divit would be welcome.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But, that was far from the case when the car rolled up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave said, "He said, 'I have a problem with getting the dog in the 
>>> car.' I said, 'Oh it's ok, he's used to riding in the car.' He said, 
>>> 'No I don't want the dog in the car.'"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave says he told the driver that Divit was a seeing eye dog, and 
>>> that under the Americans with Disabilities Act he's allowed to go 
>>> with him everywhere he goes. But, Dave says the driver didn't care.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave said the driver cancelled his ride and charged a one dollar 
>>> cancellation fee.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> According to a statement from an Uber spokesperson: "Driver partners 
>>> are instructed in ADA regulations, and while they are permitted 
>>> under the law not to take a service animal for issues like 
>>> allergies, safety or religious beliefs, drivers with those concerns 
>>> are directed to wait with the rider until another Uber arrives."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dave says he's not so much concerned about getting his dollar back 
>>> as he is about making sure no one else has to go through what he did.
>>>
>>> Tolmie has filed a complaint with the Equal Opportunities Commission 
>>> and the city of Madison, Wisconsin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> He says he's also contemplating getting a private attorney to handle 
>>> his case.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tolmie says he's just lucky the trip wasn't an emergency.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
> --
> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
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