[nagdu] Bad Dogs And The Law
Craig Heaps
craig.heaps at comcast.net
Thu Mar 5 01:17:30 UTC 2015
I don't know about other states, but California law has a provision where
people can be cited for refusing to allow service animals and can face fines
of up to $2500. I have the law on a laminated card given to me by GDB. I
carry it in my wallet.
Craig and Chase
craig.heaps at gmail.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Johnson via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "'Applebutter Hill'" <applebutterhill at gmail.com>; "'NAGDU Mailing
List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; "'S L
Johnson'" <sljohnson25 at comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bad Dogs And The Law
> The reason the police don't get involved is that this is a civil law and
> not
> a criminal law. They essentially can only inform individuals that they
> are
> violating state and/or federal law. One way to address this is to work
> with
> organizations such as NAGDU to move legislation forward to change your
> state
> laws to make this a criminal offense, and at that point, violators can be
> cited or arrested.
>
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Applebutter
> Hill
> via nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 4:43 PM
> To: 'S L Johnson'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
> Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Bad Dogs And The Law
>
> Sandra,
> This post is very powerful. Despite the fact that I knew about some of
> what
> you experienced with the other guide dog handler and your needing to move,
> it still makes me nuts with rage. I don't know the answer to any of this,
> but I think we need to change the paradygme whereby the only recourse we
> have is to file a complaint under the ADA, a process I have been through
> and
> which I believe to be thoroughly flawed.
>
> There was a time when you could call the local police and they would set
> people straight, but with the ADA, the buck gets passed totally away from
> any local intervention. One example is a case in Texas that DOJ decided to
> take to court last spring. It involved a disabled vet with a service dog,
> who wanted to rent a room for his family (6 kids, if I remember). The
> motel
> operator refused to let him stay, he called the police, and all they did
> was
> escort him to the nearest Best Western where they got a room. It's
> accepted
> that the local police don't even bother, and if they tried, what teeth do
> they have. These situations should be handled on the spot, not 2 years
> later, as mine was.
>
> I must also say that I am getting sick and tired of it all being placed on
> our shoulders to "educate the public." The ADA will be 25 years old and
> things are worse than they were when I got my first dog in '71. It's a
> complaint-driven law, designed to put the responsibility for enforcement
> on
> the people theoretically needing the protection. No one is going to get
> the
> message till we make it so painful for them to disregard our rights that
> they have no interest in a second incident. Doing that one establishment
> at
> a time is ridiculous. Some of these incidents, such as yours, are far more
> damaging to people than minor fender-benders, but the cops are all over
> them.
>
> Anyway, end of rant. I'm glad you're away from that place you used to
> live,
> but you should have had help from the people who were there. As for the
> schools, my experience is that they like to sweep things under the rug. I
> wrote to GDF and was blown off rather rudely, IMO.
> Donna & Hunter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson via
> nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 3:20 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: [nagdu] Bad Dogs And The Law
>
> Hello:
>
> I apologize in advance for the length of this message. This is a very
> important topic. I have three examples of very bad behavior with dogs in
> public. I think a lot of the problem is that we need to better educate
> about the ADA, our rights and responsibilities, as well as the rights
> and
> responsibilities of places of public accommodation. I have found that
> Business owners and landlords do not understand that they can ask that a
> person with a poorly behaved dog be removed from the premises.
>
> My neurologist recently told me about another patient who comes in with
> her
> emotional support dog who is very out of control. The woman said the dog
> helps her with her depression and anxiety. She lets the dog walk along
> with
> her without a leash and it will run up and down the halls barking and
> jumping on people. The doctors and office staff are not comfortable with
> this dog in the office. They are afraid it might injure a patient when it
> is running around off leash. This dog has left patients and staff nervous
> whenever they see anyone come in with a dog. When I approached the
> check-in
> counter with Eva, a new staff member, who did not know me, became very
> nervous until other staff reassured her that my dog was always very well
> behaved and never off leash. During that same appointment an elderly
> doctor, who was escorting an elderly patient, was very afraid when I had
> to
> pass him in the hall. The nurse who was with me said he had been knocked
> down by that other dog before. It is people like this who make it more
> difficult for us and our guides. They were amazed when I informed them
> that
> the law clearly states that emotional support dogs are not considered
> service dogs under the ADA and if a service dog was out of control they
> could ask that it be removed.
>
> I had another encounter in a department store with a lady who claimed her
> dog was a puppy in training for a service dog school. I questioned this
> because according to sighted staff, this dog did not have any identifying
> cape or collar that indicated he was a puppy in training from any
> organization. Furthermore, the dog was extremely poorly behaved. I've
> spoken to puppy raisers from guide dog schools so, I know they have very
> strict guidelines about behavior in public places. The woman said her dog
> was almost a year old. By that age, he should have been under better
> control. The minute he saw my guide dog, he began to lunge, jump, bark
> and
> growl. I tried to tell this lady to get her dog away from my dog but she
> said it was fine because her dog only wanted to play. If she really was
> training him for a service dog, then she should have taught him that such
> bad behavior was unacceptable. I was angry and also embarrassed. I
> didn't
> want anyone thinking that I approved of this behavior. I attempted to
> walk
> away from her but, she kept following me saying it was great experience
> for
> her dog to see another service dog in the store. I might have offered
> some
> training suggestions if she was correcting him and teaching him proper
> behavior in public places. Unfortunately she made no attempts to stop him
> and in fact seemed to be encouraging him by wanting him to play with my
> dog
> even though she was in harness trying to do her work. Finally a store
> staff
> came and helped me get away. They apologized but said what could they do,
> service dogs are allowed and they would get in trouble for making her
> leave
> with him. I immediately informed the store manager that they had the
> right
> to ask the woman to remove her dog because he was out of control and a
> potential threat to customers and service dogs.
>
> My third example was several years ago. I had just returned home with a
> new
> dog. Tara, my small golden was constantly being attacked by a very large
> male lab guide dog. The apartment manager and landlord claimed they
> couldn't do anything because the man was blind and the dog was his eyes.
> I
> gave them copies of the ADA with the section highlighted that said they
> can
> ask that the dog be removed if he was out of control and endangering the
> safety of other tenants and service dogs. Unfortunately it didn't
> convince
> them to take any action against this other tenant and aggressive dog.
> Local
> law enforcement also refused to get involved because the man was blind. A
> police Chief and an Animal Control Officer even went so far as to tell me
> that my dog shouldn't be such a wimp. Everyone kept telling me that my
> dog
> was the one who shouldn't be working because she was too sensitive. The
> end
> result is that I was forced to move in order to get Tara away from
> multiple
> daily attacks. What made me so upset is that nobody took responsibility.
> The handler didn't care if his dog was constantly attacking mine. The
> manager and landlord didn't care if I, and my well behaved guide dog were
> in
> danger in under a lot of stress. I was all alone without support because
> everyone didn't know the laws and refused to make a decision. They were
> so
> afraid that the blind man would sue them for discrimination that they just
> let him get away with putting me and my dog in danger. I, the innocent
> victim and my innocent guide dog were the ones who had our lives turned
> upside down because housing and law enforcement officials did know the law
> and refused to learn even when presented with the proof that I was right.
>
> I was also extremely frustrated that the guide dog school that had put out
> this aggressive dog refused to take any action. A school should be
> responsible to ensure that all dogs they put out are well behaved. If a
> dog
> develops a serious behavior problem or becomes aggressive once it is out
> working, then the school should immediately offer training support or if
> necessary a replacement dog. Despite numerous calls from my guide dog
> school, the other school took no action. We must insist that the guide
> dog
> schools are accountable and are held responsible.
> Also, we, the handlers must speak up. All too often people are too afraid
> to confront their schools for the quality of training or the dogs they are
> putting out. I often hear handlers complaining among themselves but, not
> to
> their schools. Things will never change unless we speak up to let them
> know
> we insist on a higher standard of breeding, training, follow-up services
> and
> health screening. For example, My last dog Tara was sent out even though
> the vet saw the defect on her hip x-rays before class. It was very
> irresponsible of them to put her out but, that topic is for another
> discussion. I only mention it because it is an example of when we should
> speak up and let the schools know we are not satisfied. I know it is hard
> to give up a dog once you are attached but, if the dog's behavior or work
> are not good, then insist your school help you with the problem or give
> you
> another dog.
>
> Also, we have to hold ourselves accountable. I've often been in
> situations
> where I've seen handlers whose dogs were barking, growling and lunging at
> my
> dog. They get mad when I speak up and inform them that this behavior is
> not
> appropriate. I've seen guide dogs jump and grab food and the handler
> laugh
> it off and not correct their dog. Oh, by the way, if my dog ever did grab
> something, it would be my responsibility to pay for it. The store or
> restaurant owner should not have to pay because my dog grabbed something.
> The same would hold true if my dog were to cause damage to any property.
> It
> would be my fault if I, the handler failed to control my dog. If a
> handler
> just ignores it and walks away, it makes it bad for all other guide dog
> handlers. As hard as it is to do, we all must not be afraid to speak to
> another handler about their dog's behavior or if the handler should be
> more
> responsible. One bad handler with one bad dog makes it more difficult for
> all of us.
>
> It is obvious from these three examples and many more we have heard about,
> that more education is necessary. You would think that anyone owning a
> business or managing public housing would know the laws but, obviously
> they
> do not. More shocking is that law enforcement refused to help and
> obviously
> do not know and understand the ADA and service dogs. I do not think more
> laws will help this situation but, I also can see that lawmakers are
> scrambling to find a solution to a serious problem. We need to all be
> active now to try to educate them and to be part of the discussion. Right
> now, it is a few states trying to pass laws so people say we'll fight down
> each state that tries to pass a law. The problem is while we waste time
> and
> resources fighting each individual state, someone on the federal level
> might
> get the idea that the only solution is to amend the ADA to make it
> mandatory
> for us to show proof of disability and that our dogs were trained by
> approved organizations. I would hate to see that day come because it
> would
> take away our civil rights but, without our input, who knows what our
> government will do. One person alone might not make much progress but,
> with
> all of us working together, good things can happen.
>
> Sandra and Eva
>
>
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