[nagdu] Guide Dog School

Tue Mar 10 22:06:15 UTC 2015

I don't understand how a dog can be reliable if it is trained, six weeks or six months, but very young age as many dogs seem to be. My friend just returned with a 15-month-old dog, who, quite honestly, could have definitely used some more training time.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2015, at 5:37 PM, Passle Helminski via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Thank you Sandra for a very well worded post.  I want to add that I am  in contact with the Pilot with our yearly alumni convections over the recent months.  They do not train dogs in 6 weeks.  The fact is 6 months.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Passle
> 
>> On Mar 10, 2015, at 4:59 PM, S L Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello:
>> 
>> I prefer ownership too.  However, I can understand why some schools are
>> concerned about the dog's health and weight.  I've seen some extremely
>> overweight guide dogs, some as much as ten to twenty pounds too heavy.  This
>> can cause all kinds of health problems.  It also looks horrible to the
>> public.  
>> 
>> I have to object to your statement about Pilot Dogs.  You said you don't
>> like where they get their dogs.  They have their own breeding program for
>> most of the breeds they use, otherwise they obtain dogs from breeders.  For
>> example, they do not breed their golden retrievers but get them from
>> reliable breeders.  My dog is a perfect temperament and very intelligent.
>> She is very well behaved and very   well trained.  
>> 
>> Oh, by the way, be careful with Guide Dog Foundation.  They put my last dog
>> Tara out even though they knew she had hip dysplasia.  Tara also developed
>> cataracts, that resulted from hereditary cysts in her eyes.   She was only
>> six years old.  So, if you want to question the quality of dogs, think of
>> getting a dog with health issues.  
>> 
>> I think the important thing we can learn from this discussion is that we
>> have a lot of work to do in order to get the guide dog schools to do a
>> better job of breeding, raising and  training.  They should be willing to
>> respect us and to welcome our input as to what we want from the school and
>> the dogs we receive.  Even those schools that have graduate councils only
>> select grads for the council who will agree with everything the director and
>> board wants.  We need grad councils who will speak up and disagree when they
>> don't like what is happening.   
>> 
>> One final point.  Whether you are getting your first dog or a successor dog,
>> it is important to be a good consumer.  Fortunately with the internet, it is
>> very easy to check out the web sites for all the schools.  Discussion lists
>> like this one are also an excellent source of information.  I know many
>> people are loyal to their schools but, times change so, that school might
>> not be your best choice.  Last year when I knew it was time for Tara to
>> retire, I applied to several schools.  
>> 
>> Sandra and Eva
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nimer Jaber via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 2:04 PM
>> To: milissa61; 'Debby Phillips'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National
>> Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog School
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Thanks for your responses about the various guide schools.  I am in
>> agreement with Marion on his points...I don't like a school that will retain
>> ownership for any amount of time.  I don't like a school that mandates
>> weight requirements, and I certainly don't like a school that attempts to
>> force grads to send medical info.  This is just like going out and buying a
>> car and having the dealership tell you that they wish to see a log of all
>> the places you go with that car.  This isn't something I'm willing to
>> accept.  As it stands, it seems that most schools retain ownership.  There
>> seems to be only a couple of schools that purport to hand over ownership to
>> their grads.  It's a shame that things are going down the way they are with
>> TSE as I support their model the most and would love to pay for my dog.
>> Looks like I'll be checking out GDF and GDA as they seem to be the ones that
>> hand ownership.  I have heard and seen too many cases of pretty bad training
>> with Pilot...and I don't like where they get their dogs from, either.
>> Southeastern seems to have a forced retirement age that is in-congruent with
>> providing ownership.  If anyone has anything additional to add about this,
>> please let me know.  I wish that more schools would provide ownership and
>> would stop treating blind people with such disrespect, but I suppose I can
>> continue dreaming...
>> 
>> Thanks all for all of your advice on this topic.
>> 
>>> On 09-Mar-15 10:29, milissa61 wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> All my dogs have been from Guiding Eyes. They are a great school and 
>>> the director of training is phenomenal. When you get a dog from 
>>> Guiding Eyes, GEB owns the dog for the first two years. After that, 
>>> you are able to apply for ownership provided your dog is in good 
>>> health. GEB is very strict about making sure their dogs are not over 
>>> weight. I like GEB's ownership policy because if anything goes wrong, 
>>> (like the dog is being abused) GEB can step in and take the dog. They 
>>> are not in the practice of taking people's dogs away. If something is 
>>> wrong, they really go out of their way to help you straighten things 
>>> out. But, I am glad it's an option. I've seen way to many dogs from 
>>> schools that give ownership right away not be able to do anything if a 
>>> dog is not being treated well or if the dog is overweight. Let me know if
>> you have any other questions about GEB.
>>> 
>>> Just my two cents.
>>> 
>>> Milissa
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debby 
>>> Phillips via nagdu
>>> Sent: Monday, March 9, 2015 11:27 AM
>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com; semisweetdebby at gmail.com; nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog School
>>> 
>>> You might want to look at Guiding EYES.  They produce some great dogs, 
>>> the training is very good, I'm told, (the Director of training was my 
>>> first instructor at Seeing Eye).  I'm not sure what their ownership 
>>> policy is.  I almost applied there before I got Neena, but at the last 
>>> moment, I just couldn't make the change.  I've been getting dogs from 
>>> TSE since 1981.  I have concerns too about some of the direction then 
>>> are going, and concerns about their ability to do good follow up.  But 
>>> for me, I just couldn't make the change.  Neena is a great dog, and I 
>>> love how she works.  We will see, in the future, if I need follow-up
>>> if it will happen or not.  Good luck with your search.    Peace,    
>>> Debby with Neena
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/milissa61%40gmail.c
>>> om
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sljohnson25%40comcast.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/passle%40roadrunner.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com