[nagdu] Customer satisfaction & Supposed Facts about SEGDI

Thu Mar 26 20:09:10 UTC 2015

These terms in the ownership policy aren't ownership...a school that can 
take your dog and can tell you not to sell your dog isn't ownership.

On 26-Mar-15 15:04, Sherrill O'Brien via nagdu wrote:
> Hello Renee and all,
>
> Renee, you didn't say exactly when you received your current dog, so perhaps the contract you signed had not yet been updated to reflect this new retirement policy. At our Florida Association of Guide Dog Users seminar during our state convention two months ago, SEGDI's Applicant Recruiter Stephanie Cardenas was a guest speaker. She indeed told us that guide dog retirement is now mandatory when the dog turns eleven. I haven't since spoken to any other staff members at SEGDI, but this would seem to be the new official policy.
>
> You were of course wise to look over the contract so carefully. Not everyone is as concerned about what they're signing as they should be. I'm glad SEGDI made the contract available to you in Braille.
>
> Warm regards
> Sherrill O'Brien, President
> Florida Association of Guide Dog Users
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Renee Walker via nagdu
> Sent: March 26, 2015 1:59 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Customer satisfaction & Supposed Facts about SEGDI
>
> Hi,
> I just received my second guide from Southeastern Guide Dogs, Inc. (SEGDI). I was also a puppy raiser starting back in the mid-90’s until 2007. I must disagree with some statements made about ownership and retirement policies at SEGDI. I am DeafBlind, so I received the contract a few days before I signed the contract in order to read it carefully at my own pace in braille. My sighted husband also read a printed copy. We got out the first contract from my first guide and compared it to see if there were changes. I also re-read the contract today in order to properly make this post. Let me briefly summarize what is actually in a SEGDI contract which is the transfer of ownership agreement.
>
> 1. You are being given ownership of the guide dog without any cost with subject to terms and agreements within the document.
> 2. Continued support- Graduate agrees to contact Graduate Services if any help is needed for support and follow-up care. (In addition, they do have a written plan of follow-up care now that is more involved than when I graduated 10 years ago with my first dog. They were smaller then and follow-up care was provided to all who asked for it as often as needed by phone, email, home visits, or campus-continued training as a last resort, so that stretched their small staff, so a lot wasn’t done toward SEGDI reaching out other than emails and surveys. Now they have grown and donor funding as increased, so follow-up is one of  the areas they are beefing up, but they are always just a phone call or email or text away if you need something. I only needed them once before, but they were spot on immediately when I did and sent emails periodically to check in on me before. Now, they will do the reaching out regularly and more often specifically rather than waiting on you, but it is still your responsibility to contact them if you need them.)
> 3. Assistance in event of retirement- At the retirement, the graduate is expected within reasonable measures to identify appropriate placement for the dog at retirement. If the graduate is unable to identify an appropriate home, SEGDI will assist, within reasonable measures, with the placement. (I am keeping my graduate, but others find relatives or friends. Still others need SEGDI to reach out to their contacts for help finding a suitable placement. NOTE: Age is not mentioned.)
> 4. Continued possession and ownership: you can’t sell, lend or donate the dog to another school or similar organization or research facility or third party without SEGDI agreeing.
> 5.SEGDI can repossess the dog if abuse or negligence happens including gaining too much weight or losing too much weight or if the team is not working safely. They stipulate here that they will work with the team as much as possible to correct unsafe practices prior to removal. (Removal is always a last resort or when necessary for the safety of the dog.)
> 6. The harness is the only thing that doesn’t belong to you. You agree to give it back when the dog retires or if the dog is repossessed for the reasons listed in the agreement.
> 7. You are responsible for the dog’s behavior, food, medical, proper shelter, general care, in practice and financially.
> 8. If you become incapacitated, die, or become ineligible (regain vision to limits above what is required) and the dog is less than 5 years old, you agree that SEGDI can evaluate the dog to see if they can be used as a guide elsewhere, and regardless of age recommends having a written  care plan in place to provide for the dog’s care. (I personally think this should be for any pet.)
>
> That’s basically it. The contract is a bit wordier, but I lumped things together in categories.
>
> My experience with SEGDI is that yes, the dog is yours in all respects, but for the dog’s safety which I WANT, they have set up circumstances where they can take the dog back if necessary, but only after they have tried to help the graduate team to work together well, safely, and happily. I know this effort to be true in a few cases. I don’t want an organization that looks at these dogs a mere tools or things even if the law describes them as tools for legality sake. I want an organization that cares about its dogs' health and well-being from start to finish. SEGDI does and shows it. They also care about their blind and deafblind consumers and want the team to work well together being safe and happy from start to finish. The agreement supports that.
>
> Retirement is not specified because SEGDI has always and continues to do that on a case by case scenario because dogs are different, working environments are different, and home environments are different. As a general rule, they start at 9 or 10 educating you of signs to look for in your guide that may signal the dog may be getting ready to retire. At 10, they want to meet with you and evaluate things. At 11, they meet with you again. At 12, if still working, they will meet with you again. These meetings are discussion. They are not about forcing you to agree to retire your dog at all. Of course, if it is obvious that a guide is being forced to work while in pain or very unhappily, SEGDI would take more immediate or firm action, but I doubt that happens often because most handlers love their dogs well. SEGDI knew that it was difficult for both me and my guide to discuss retirement. Yes, even my guide showed he wanted to work and be with me, but you have to recognize when it is best for the dog because they will sometimes work themselves to death because they love you so much. Again, though, I stress, it is discussing and coming to a decision together on what is best for both of you, but especially the dog. I know one team near me that I have known for 15 years even before I lost much of my vision that worked until the dog was about 13. That is unusual, but the dog was an active, healthy viszla who was in a comfortable working and home setting. The dog recently died at 15 after enjoying a couple of fun and relaxing years with his blind handler as a pet. SEGDI takes the situation case by case, but yeah 11 years old might be a good rule of thumb to use as a retirement age. Some may need to retire before 10 even if they just lose interest and aren’t happy anymore. My dog is almost 12 and we just retired him. He still wants to go, but I want him to relax and enjoy life some. He still has a couple of places that let him go as a pet, so it works for us and him.
>
> I love SEGDI. Are they perfect? Probably not, but I have worked on both sides now. I love how they do things. I love how they are always looking at themselves as objectively as they can and work to keep what works and fix what doesn’t. They do it all based on private donations only which hasn’t always been a lot because the bigger, older, more famous schools tend to get most of the attention. They don’t bash other schools at all. They recognize the need for many schools with even different methods as long as they are humane and about putting out safe and happy working teams.
>
> I personally have worked with another couple of schools not by getting a dog, but as further consultation when at Helen Keller National Center for the DeafBlind. I don’t always agree with how they do things. I have seen some teams that really shouldn’t be working because they aren’t safe, but they are. That said. I realize that these methods are different and probably work fine and the unsafe teams were isolated events, not the norm; so I won’t call out names, and I won’t say a school shouldn’t be considered. Consider all of the schools. Choose the one that fits your situation and needs. I do recommend SEGDI because I have seen the good work and the good results and the willingness to learn from mistakes or less than perfect results. That is what makes a good school and happy, healthy, safe teams.
>
> Professionalism and respect is what SEGDI gives and what I try to give. I also expect that same thing from others on this list. I’m new, so I’m assuming that these posts of misinformation were unintentional borne out of concern for blind partners and dog guides. It probably came from listening to someone explain what was done for their specific situation, but mistaken as being a statement of actual SEGDI policy when it isn’t the case. SEGDI has good policies, but they also have as part of their good methods the idea of looking at each case individually when choosing to accept a blind consumer to matching to training to graduating to following up to retirement. Doing what is best for each individual team is the main concern. I’m sure it was unintentional, so I suggest we keep statements about schools we don’t know about to being questions for confirmation by those who have been there rather than supposed statements of facts. All schools have some negatives. All schools have a lot of positives. Let’s remember that. I am sure I won’t second guess my decision to participate here.
>
> Sorry this was so long.
>
> In The Shadow of The Master Teacher, Jesus Christ,
> Renée K. Walker, Ed.S.
> Principal/CEO
> Wynfield Christian Academy
> DeafBlind Hope
> 143 Williamson Dr.
> Macon, GA 31210
> Monroe County
> (978) 563-9663
> Fax: Email documents to rkwalker at wynfieldca.org or mail
> (478) 845-2294 (Deaf IP Relay direct line)
>
>
>
>> On Mar 26, 2015, at 11:09 AM, S L Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Maybe they think it is in the best interest of both the person and the dog
>> to retire by age eleven.  I've certainly heard trainers complain about
>> people who continue to work older dogs who should have been allowed to
>> retire.  I've also heard from some veterinarians who get quite upset with
>> clients who are still working dogs past age ten.  Many people feel that an
>> older dog deserves to just relax and enjoy life when they are that old.  I
>> personally would not continue to work an older dog.  That dog has given me
>> many years of dedicated service and deserves some rest and relaxation in
>> their old age.  We have to quit thinking of ourselves and think of the
>> health and wellbeing of an older dog.  Many people criticized me for
>> retiring my eight-year-old Tara due to hip dysplasia.  Some people told me
>> to give her stronger pain pills so she could keep working.  It was the
>> opinion of myself and my vet that it would be cruel to continue working her.
>> I know there are differing opinions about retirement age and it is always a
>> tough decision.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Marion Gwizdala via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:21 AM
>> To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com <mailto:helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com> ; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National
>> Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Customer satisfaction
>>
>> Though Southeastern claims to give full ownership upon completion of
>> training, they also now require their consumers to retire their dogs by the
>> age of 11. So, you tell me, if you own your dog, how can they have a
>> mandatory retirement age? I asked that question during the Florida
>> Association of Guide dog Users meeting in January and got no answer.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>>
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789
>> (888) 624-3841 (Hotline)
>> President at nagdu.org
>> http://www.nagdu.org
>>
>> High expectations create unlimited potential for the blind!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Helga via nagdu
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 6:38 PM
>> To: Debby Phillips; Tracy Carcione; nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Customer satisfaction
>>
>> Hi Ms. Debby. How are you? I just wanted to ask you, have you consider in
>> applying to Southeastern Guide Dog school? Just wondering. This school is
>> located in Tampa Florida, but I think they also give you ownership of your
>> dog! I'm not so sure about though. If someone knows, feel free to correct me
>> ok?  I'm considering in applying over there this July! However, I don't know
>> you have heard of the policy that they have,I'm actually aginst it  a little
>> bit, but the reason I'm considering in applying over there is because I live
>> in Florida. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless!
>>
>>
>>
>> Helga Schreiber
>>
>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter Member
>> of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind
>> Students Member of The International Networkers Team (INT) Independent
>> Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research
>>
>> Phone: (561) 706-5950
>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com
>> Skype: helga.schreiber26
>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx
>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever
>> believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Debby Phillips via nagdu
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:17 PM
>> To: Tracy Carcione ; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users ; nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Customer satisfaction
>>
>> I hope not, Tracy but it may have to be that.  This is so hard for me as
>> I've been getting my dogs from TSE since 1981.  And if I end up going to
>> GDB, I'll have to eat crow, too.  (Grin).  But I don't know what to do.  In
>> the meantime, my application is in at TSE, and I have to decide if I'm going
>> to apply elsewhere where that would be.  There are things I like about GEB,
>> but I know their waiting list is long, too.  Leader has a fairly short wait
>> time once you get accepted, which can take 30 to 60 days.  I like GDA but
>> for are fairly small, and I think their wait times might be pretty long,
>> too.  I just can't make myself go to Pilot.
>> As much as I am trying to stop being close-minded about that school, I just
>> can't quite make that leap.  There is Fidelco, but I have a hard time seeing
>> me with a shepherd.  And then there's Guide Dog Foundation.  I really like
>> Jenine Stanley and have heard good things about that school too, but I'm
>> also hearing rumblings about how "corporate" they're becoming.  I need the
>> wisdom of Solomon.  And anybody else in this process does too.
>> Peace,    Debby
>>
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