[nagdu] Engaging distractors

Sat May 16 03:56:02 UTC 2015

Hi all,
I agree with what has been said.  One thing I have struggled with when
working my current dog is following.  For some reason, I have had a
lot of people try to call my dog when they want me to follow them
somewhere.  Then they will be annoyed when he doesn't follow them.
They are especially annoyed when I take Tami's approach and reward him
for not following when he is told to do so by someone else.  :)

Another thing I work on with my dogs is how to deal with people
grabbing me.  My dog will pretty much ignore petters, unless they are
really obnoxious.  Once a friend of mine chewed out a dumb college guy
for petting my dog while we were walking down stairs.  I was glad she
did so.  Yes, my dog was well-behaved, and I didn't even realize he
was petting, but that was unacceptable.  If he had been distracted, it
could have been my neck broken, so I also tell people that it could
mean my life if my dog is too distracted by their antics.

I digress...  I teach my dogs to stop when someone is grabbing me.
They stop so that I don't fall from the balance problem that is
created when someone tries to help by grabbing rather than speaking.
Then I reward my dog, the person is offended, and then I need to
explain to someone who is likely at least 20 years older than I am
that it is the dog's job to guide and their job to let them.
Sometimes adults act like children and needed to be treated so.

On 5/15/15, Raven Tolliver via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> If I'm walking or in motion, I ignore distracting people. If I'm in a
> place where we're hanging out or stationary, I've been known to snap
> at people. At times, I am diplomatic about things, but there are other
> times where people just have a blatant disregard for my boundaries, my
> dog's boundaries, common sense self safety, and the working
> relationship between me and my dog. Those people deserve to hear it
> from someone, so it's me. I don't care whether you know or don't know
> not to pet service dogs. How 'about not invading people's space? How
> about not approaching strange animals? How about being careful for the
> sake of your own safety?
> Don't touch fire if you don't want to get burned.
> Then people have the audacity to acknowledge that it's a service dog,
> and I know I shouldn't pet you, but ....
> Oh, no. Don't touch my dog. He's working!
> It's unbelievably ridiculous that people get offended. Because if it
> were children we were discussing, everyone would agree, don't put your
> hands on another person's child, and I don't blame you as a parent for
> going off. But guide dog owners are supposed to be extremely
> diplomatic and have couth every time people want to treat us and our
> dogs like spectacles, or as if we're a mobile petting zoo. Oh, no no.
> I can keep it together most of the time, but I will freely admit, that
> sometimes, I lose it. If I am standing at the grocery store, waiting
> at the bus stop, or at a wine tasting, whatever, people should still
> exercise common courtesy and keep their wandering hands to themselves.
> Okay, rant over.
> --
> Raven
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you
> have or what you do.
>
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>
> On 5/15/15, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi Tami.
>> It did occur to me yesterday that these people make no attempt to engage
>> *me, only my dog.  If they actually spoke to me, we could have a
>> civilized,
>> if short, conversation.  So I guess just motoring on and focusing on my
>> dog
>> is still the most sensible thing to do.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
>> via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:58 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Tami Jarvis
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Engaging distractors
>>
>> Tracy,
>>
>> With Mitzi, I've tended to take a situational approach, engaging and
>> explaining when it's convenient, just ignoring and moving on when we need
>> to
>> focus. She's a fairly reserved dog and not terribly food-motivated, so I
>> could be a bit lackadaisacal with her. In restaurants and such, I take a
>> firmer line and stay on the straight and narrow, making sure she knows we
>> are not there to socialize and poke our nose into other people's eating
>> space. So I just ignore distractors and move on. If people talk to me, I
>> will answer them, if a bit distractedly. There's usually so much noise
>> and
>> bustle going on that I need to pay attention to stay oriented and weave
>> around all the moving obstacles and whatnot. To be honest, there are
>> times
>> I
>> would like to snap at folks for distracting my dog -- at least once,
>> someone
>> has waved food at her as we went by! -- but I'm too busy finding the path
>> to
>> be snotty.
>>
>> Loki is good friends with everyone, just hasn't seen them for a bit and
>> needs to say hi. He does so with gentlemanly charm, but the concept of
>> letting people walk on by or of walking on by them is slow in coming.
>> When we move on to more advanced public access training, that's going to
>> make life interesting. How I will change my ways of dealing with people
>> actually trying to distract him remains to be seen.
>>
>> I think that just ignoring the bad behavior of distracting the guide dog
>> while it's working sends its own message, maybe even more clearly than
>> stopping to explain. I think of it in terms of operant conditioning. The
>> desired reward for the bad behavior is to get a reaction from the dog and
>> maybe from the handler, so denying that reward is negative reinforcement
>> for
>> the bad behavior. If I'm standing in the grocery line or something with
>> nothing better to do, I'm more likely to talk about the whys and
>> wherefors,
>> though it depends on the approach the other person is taking. Praising
>> the
>> dog for ignoring the distraction really gets the message across, and
>> clicking and popping a treat in the dog's mouth can elicit a gasp of
>> shock
>> from the person I'm rewarding her for ignoring. I think on that one, I
>> smiled and said to the world at general, "She's doing her job." It struck
>> me
>> as awfully funny, I'm afraid.
>>
>> I think in the diner situation, I would have done as you did and just
>> moved
>> my dog along.
>>
>> Tami
>>
>>
>> On 05/15/2015 06:15 AM, Tracy Carcione via nagdu wrote:
>>> I usually don't try to engage with people who are distracting my dog.
>>> I'm so concentrated on controlling my wild young beast and getting him
>>> back on track that I don't think of it, really.  I tend to treat human
>>> distractors like yapping dogs or scampering squirrels, I guess.
>>>
>>> Last night, we ate at our local diner, and, as I was working Krokus
>>> through the tables, where he is very apt to be distracted by food,
>>> some guy we were passing was saying "Hi buddy!", more than once.  I
>>> told Krokus softly but sharply to hopp up, and moved him on past and
>>> out the door.  Then I wondered if I should have tried to engage the
>>> guy and explain to him why distracting my dog was a bad idea.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't do it in New York City, probably, but my neighborhood here
>>> in Jersey isn't so fast-paced.
>>>
>>> What do other people do?
>>>
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>
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-- 
Julie McGinnity
National Federation of the Blind of Missouri second vice president,
National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President
graduate, Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
"For we walk by faith, not by sight"
2 Cor. 7