[NAGDU] Guide Dog Harnesses of the Past was Re: Pilot Dogs HarnessQuestion
Caitlyn Furness
caitlyn.furness at gmail.com
Sat Apr 23 10:46:52 UTC 2016
I remember when I had my first guide dog from GDB-back in the 80’s. they used one of those quick release snaps on the right side of the harness so you could take it off and put it on easily. I missed that when I had my seeing eye dogs, but soon got used to not having that and using the buckle under the tummy and the martingale strap… I also remember the fur savers. I don’t find that you can give a good correction with those, unless you get the really good Herm Sprenger ones. With my Dobie, though, one of these is not necessary since she has such close fine fur.
Cait
> On Apr 22, 2016, at 6:28 PM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Lisie:
>
> I have been a guide dog user for 40 years. The harness have not changed all
> that much since then. There might b slight differences but the basic design
> is the same. I think most of the schools use a tan or brown leather. I
> think one school might use white. Many years ago the harnesses had a
> martingale strap that went between the dog's front legs. Most schools have
> dropped this. I think Seeing Eye still uses a martingale, or at least the
> last dog I saw from there had one. I wish The schools hadn't stopped using
> the martingale because for some small dogs it kept them from getting their
> front legs out of their chest straps. An example of this is my little
> golden. Eva is thin and her harness is a bit too big for her small frame.
> Sometimes when she is lying down she can wriggle around and get one or both
> her legs out of the chest strap. I can tighten the belly strap but there is
> no adjustments on chest straps. One incident with this problem happened on
> my way back from the NFB 75th convention. I got to my gate and had a long
> time before my flight. Eva curled up under my chair and fell asleep. She
> had moved around in her sleep a bit but, I didn't think much of it because I
> knew I would have plenty of time to be sure she hadn't gotten out of the
> chest strap. Suddenly an airport staff came and grabbed me telling me he
> had left me at the wrong gate. I hurried to get Eva up and she was
> hopelessly tangled in her half on and half off harness. What a mess trying
> to sort it out and get our stuff together with a very mad impatient staff
> member trying to rush us. the convention I do miss the martingale straps.
>
> Another change is now most schools have a quick release clip on the right
> side of the harness body making it a quick easy way to put on and off the
> harness. To me, I really do not see the need for this. Buckling the strap
> under the dogs belly was very easy so personally I do not like the clips as
> well. I find that the clip makes that side of the harness not stay lying as
> flat to the dogs side and therefore, sometimes twists around a bit.
> However, that is just my opinion and I know most handlers just love their
> quick release clips.
>
> Some schools only use the straight handles and some use straight and offset
> and maybe even ergonomic. GDF usually only issues offset handles. I also
> do not like the offset handles. I think it puts the dog much too far away
> from the handler making it harder to follow the dog. With my first dog a
> trainer kept insisting I use one until the dog slammed me into a sign post
> giving me a major concussion. He finally agreed that I am much better at
> reading my dog's movements with a straight handle and I have insisted on
> that for the past 40 years even at a school that only issued offset handles.
>
> The guide dog leashes are almost the same at all the schools except what I
> said yesterday about the Pilot Dogs leash having extra snaps and an
> adjustable buckle that can be made into a muzzle. Some schools have a hand
> loop already made for you and others have the clip and ring so you make your
> own loop handle when you need the long leash. To me, I do not like the loop
> handle already made because it just adds another thickness of leather you
> have to hold on to and for some women with small hands it is a bit too much
> to grab.
>
> Another change is the collars. 40 years ago some schools, Seeing Eye, GDB
> and GDF used a fur-saver collar. That is a collar with two inch long wide
> links that prevents the chain from cutting the dog's fur. Over the years
> students and trainers began to complain that students were not giving good
> corrections with these collars. I personally did not have that problem and
> am still using fur-saver collars the minute I get home with a new dog,
> especially since I only request female golden retrievers and I don't like
> what the chains do to their fur. I have not seen a school issue a fur-saver
> collar for at least 20 years. Now I see the chain collars with some schools
> using a thin narrow chain and others using a wider thicker one. I also have
> seen a few dogs wearing a check-choke collar. This is a combination nylon
> collar about an inch or two wide that adjusts to fit the neck and it has
> chain at the top that will only allow the collar to be pulled to a certain
> tightness around the neck. I think you can also purchase these in leather
> too. I have never used one so someone else will have to tell you if they
> work and why or why not they like them.
>
> Thanks Lisie, this is an interesting discussion.
>
> Sandra and Eva
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lisie Foster via NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 1:03 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Lisie Foster
> Subject: [NAGDU] Guide Dog Harnesses of the Past was Re: Pilot Dogs
> HarnessQuestion
>
> Thank you all so much for answering my questions, including the one about
> the harnesses used by Pilot Dogs.
>
> I think the difference I've been noticing is the way the "ears" on Pilot
> harnesses are kept closer to the harness body when compared to many other
> schools, the chest strap that is plain, without reflectors, as well as the
> white handle. Those make it look very distinct, to me, at least! I think
> it's a very nice looking harness, too.
>
> I had a second question along similar lines which is not specific to any
> guide dog school. I'm wondering, for anyone who's worked with guide dogs for
> many years, or for anyone who might know about it, how have guide dog
> harnesses changed over the years?
>
> I've read before that the original Seeing Eye harnesses were quite heavy.
> But, other than that, I don't know much about anything other than modern
> harnesses. I know about some recent changes, like the change to Swiss
> harnesses by GDB, and the inclusion of ergonomic and offset handle options
> at some schools.
>
> What I'd love to know is whether modern harnesses are much different from
> the harnesses issued 20, 30, or even 40 years or more ago, and how they're
> different.
>
> I don't know why, but I think this topic is interesting! I hope no one minds
> my questions about this. Thank you!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Lisie and Finn ( the sleepy Golden boy )
>
> lisiefoster at yahoo.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 12:17 PM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Lisie:
>>
>> I will try to give you a good description. Our Pilot Dog harnesses are
>> made
>> out of tan leather. The handle is covered in white vinyl on the sides and
>> tan leather at the top and partly down each side. The handle does not
>> have
>> clips or snaps to attach it to the D-rings on the harness body. The metal
>> is wrapped around the ring and tightened by using pliers. The ears are
>> smaller than most and attached with another rib it at the top so they stay
>> flat against the back strap. They do not flop to the side like some
>> schools
>> with big floppy ears. For example. My previous guide was from GDF and I
>> hated their huge ears because the handle would flop off to the right side
>> of
>> the dogs body and it allowed too much movement so it was harder to feel
>> the
>> dog's movements, especially with a dog who had a very light to almost no
>> pull at all. Pilot Dogs handles are straight. They do not use any of the
>> other weird curved and other strange looking handles I have seen. I know
>> some schools have been trying out some ergonomic handles and for years GDF
>> used the off set handles which I also hated so much that my trainer
>> finally
>> gave me a straight one with Tara. The Pilot handles are a bit shorter
>> than
>> some schools use. For example, I am 5 feet 3 inches tall and my little
>> golden is about 22 inches tall. My Pilot handle is 15 inches long. When
>> the trainer gave it to me I thought it would be too short. However, I
>> quickly found that I liked it because it lets you really feel what the
>> dog
>> is doing, especially with a dog like Eva who is very gentle with an
>> extremely light pull. The harness has a quick snap on the side so you
>> don't
>> have to fool with the buckle when putting the harness on and off. I think
>> a
>> lot of the schools harness bodies have this type of clip. The Pilot
>> harness
>> does have two snaps across the chest strap where you can snap in a strip
>> of
>> flat round prongs that discourage a dog that is pulling too hard. For
>> dogs
>> like Eva who do not pull, our harness has just a plain leather strip that
>> snaps into that place. There is no reflective material on the Pilot
>> harness
>> body or handle. I have heard of some graduates who have applied
>> reflective
>> tape over the vinyl sides of the handle. The Pilot Dog leashes are also
>> different from any others I have seen. They are almost a foot longer with
>> a
>> snap and adjustable buckle that are used to form a muzzle if it is ever
>> necessary. I don't like the leash so I ordered a guide dog style leash
>> from
>> a pet supply company that sells service dog equipment. I hope this gives
>> you an idea of what the Pilot Dog harness looks like. It is interesting
>> to
>> compare the equipment that the schools use. I am also sure there are many
>> opinions of what trainers and graduates like and dislike when it comes to
>> the harnesses and handles.
>>
>> Sandra and Eva
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lisie Foster via NAGDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 10:18 PM
>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
>> Cc: Lisie Foster
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Pilot Dogs Harness Question
>>
>> Hello, again! OK this is my last post for today, *smiles*!
>>
>> If anyone on the list has or has had a dog from Pilot Dogs, I was
>> wondering
>> if you'd be willing to describe what their harnesses look like and what
>> makes them different from other schools' harnesses?
>>
>> I know that they are made to accommodate a clip-on chest piece, that they
>> have a white handle with a leather grip, but other than that, I can't
>> quite
>> figure out why they seem so different.
>>
>> Are the stabilizing bunny ears attached differently? They seem different,
>> somehow, perhaps closer to the body of the harness. Also, is there any
>> reflective material on their harnesses at all?
>>
>> Despite Pilot harnesses being the ones I've seen most often, since we live
>> not too far from the school, I've never been able to figure out what it is
>> that makes them so distinct from the other schools' harnesses (like TSE,
>> GDF, etc.).
>>
>> Also, I love Pilot's leashes. I really wish I knew someone who sold them
>> to
>> the public, because I'd buy one in a second! I like the fact that they're
>> adjustable and are quite a bit longer than most guide dog leashes. The
>> leash
>> I'm currently using is a typical guide dog style leash, but is *much*
>> longer, being seven feet long from one end of the leather to the other. I
>> believe Pilot's leashes are about six feet long.
>>
>> If there are any Pilot graduates who might be willing to answer, I'd
>> appreciate it so much. I love the look of Pilot's harnesses, yet can't
>> exactly figure out what makes them so distinct.
>>
>> You can email me off-list, too, at lisiefoster @ yahoo.com. Thank you all,
>> again!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Lisie and Finn, the Buckeyes
>>
>> Lisie and Finn
>> lisiefoster at yahoo.com
>> Sent from my iPhone
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