[NAGDU] Guide Dog Harnesses of the Past was Re: Pilot DogsHarness Question

Caitlyn Furness caitlyn.furness at gmail.com
Mon Apr 25 18:19:31 UTC 2016


I am just repeating what I’ve read in books from the past-mostly stories of the Seeing Eye.  Oh, and some general guide dog books talking about history.

Cait

> On Apr 25, 2016, at 12:01 PM, Star Gazer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 			How do we know the guide dogs from long ago had a
> real hard pull? I'm not disputing it, I just want to know how we know. Also,
> why did they have such a strong pull?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lisie Foster via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 4:05 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Lisie Foster <lisiefoster at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide Dog Harnesses of the Past was Re: Pilot
> DogsHarness Question
> 
> This is fascinating, and not at all what I expected about the original
> harnesses. 
> 
> Rolled leather handles on lightweight harnesses, wow. Then you put those on
> a dog pulling like a train engine! That must've been an interesting
> experience for people on their first walks with the first guide dogs,
> *grins*, I can't imagine! 
> 
> Thank you so much, Caitlyn and Buddy (and that's as far as I've read the
> replies, so far).
> 
> It'd be amazing to know what that would be like to use one of those
> harnesses (and dogs!).
> 
> Lisie and Finn
> lisiefoster at yahoo.com
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 22, 2016, at 6:56 PM, Star Gazer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> 
>>              I'd love that! I also would love to feel how a guide dog 
>> from long ago guided compared to one today.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson 
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 6:34 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: S L Johnson <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide Dog Harnesses of the Past was Re: Pilot 
>> DogsHarness Question
>> 
>> Caitlyn:
>> 
>> Wouldn't it be interesting to have an exhibit of all kinds of old 
>> guide dog equipment that we could feel and explore?
>> 
>> Sandra
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Caitlyn Furness via NAGDU
>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 1:29 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Caitlyn Furness
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Guide Dog Harnesses of the Past was Re: Pilot 
>> DogsHarness Question
>> 
>> Lizzie,
>> 
>> The older harnesses had a rigid handle, but it wasnb?Tt metal, like today.
> 
>> the older handles were made of stiff leather, and the dogs back then 
>> pulled like mac trucks.
>> 
>> My own guide dog use only goes back 30 years, so I bet there are 
>> others here who can add to thisb?&  and the rigid leather handles are 
>> way before my own time with guide dogs..
>> 
>> Caitlyn
>> 
>>> On Apr 22, 2016, at 1:03 PM, Lisie Foster via NAGDU 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you all so much for answering my questions, including the one 
>>> about the harnesses used by Pilot Dogs.
>>> 
>>> I think the difference I've been noticing is the way the "ears" on 
>>> Pilot harnesses are kept closer to the harness body when compared to 
>>> many other schools, the chest strap that is plain, without 
>>> reflectors, as well as the white handle. Those make it look very 
>>> distinct, to me, at least! I think it's a very nice looking harness, too.
>>> 
>>> I had a second question along similar lines which is not specific to 
>>> any guide dog school. I'm wondering, for anyone who's worked with 
>>> guide dogs for many years, or for anyone who might know about it, how 
>>> have guide dog harnesses changed over the years?
>>> 
>>> I've read before that the original Seeing Eye harnesses were quite heavy.
> 
>>> But, other than that, I don't know much about anything other than 
>>> modern harnesses. I know about some recent changes, like the change 
>>> to Swiss harnesses by GDB, and the inclusion of ergonomic and offset 
>>> handle options at some schools.
>>> 
>>> What I'd love to know is whether modern harnesses are much different 
>>> from the harnesses issued 20, 30, or even 40 years or more ago, and 
>>> how they're different.
>>> 
>>> I don't know why, but I think this topic is interesting! I hope no 
>>> one minds my questions about this. Thank you!
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> Lisie and Finn ( the sleepy Golden boy )
>>> 
>>> lisiefoster at yahoo.com
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 20, 2016, at 12:17 PM, S L Johnson via NAGDU 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Lisie:
>>>> 
>>>> I will try to give you a good description.  Our Pilot Dog harnesses 
>>>> are made out of tan leather.  The handle is covered in white vinyl 
>>>> on the sides and tan leather at the top and partly down each side.  
>>>> The handle does not have clips or snaps to attach it to the D-rings 
>>>> on the harness body.  The metal is wrapped around the ring and 
>>>> tightened by using pliers.  The ears are smaller than most and 
>>>> attached with another rib it at the top so they stay flat against the
> back strap.
>>>> They do not flop to the side like some schools with big floppy ears.  
>>>> For example.  My previous guide was from GDF and I hated their huge 
>>>> ears because the handle would flop off to the right side of the dogs 
>>>> body and it allowed too much movement so it was harder to feel the 
>>>> dog's movements, especially with a dog who had a very light to 
>>>> almost no pull at all.  Pilot Dogs handles are straight.  They do 
>>>> not use any of the other weird curved and other strange looking 
>>>> handles I have seen.  I know some schools have been trying out some 
>>>> ergonomic handles and for years GDF used the off set handles which I 
>>>> also hated so much that my trainer finally gave me a straight one with
> Tara.
>>>> The Pilot handles are a bit shorter than some schools use.  For 
>>>> example, I am 5 feet 3 inches tall and my little golden is about 22 
>>>> inches tall.  My Pilot handle is 15 inches long.  When the trainer 
>>>> gave it to me I thought it would be too short.  However, I quickly 
>>>> found that  I liked it because it lets you really feel what the dog 
>>>> is doing, especially with a dog like Eva who is very gentle with an 
>>>> extremely light pull.  The harness has a quick snap on the side so 
>>>> you don't have to fool with the buckle when putting the harness on 
>>>> and off.  I think a lot of the schools harness bodies have this type 
>>>> of clip.  The Pilot harness does have two snaps across the chest 
>>>> strap where you can snap in a strip of flat round prongs that 
>>>> discourage a dog that is pulling too hard.  For dogs like Eva who do 
>>>> not pull, our harness has just a plain leather strip that snaps into 
>>>> that place.  There is no reflective material on the Pilot harness 
>>>> body or handle.  I have heard of some graduates who have applied 
>>>> reflective tape over the vinyl sides of the handle.  The Pilot Dog 
>>>> leashes are also different from any others I have seen.  They are 
>>>> almost a foot longer with a snap and adjustable buckle that are used 
>>>> to form a muzzle if it is ever necessary.  I don't like the leash so 
>>>> I ordered a guide dog style leash from a pet supply company that 
>>>> sells service dog equipment.  I hope this gives you an idea of what 
>>>> the Pilot Dog harness looks like.  It is interesting to compare the 
>>>> equipment that the schools use.  I am also sure there are many 
>>>> opinions of what trainers and graduates like and dislike when it 
>>>> comes to the harnesses and handles.
>>>> 
>>>> Sandra and Eva
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lisie Foster via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 10:18 PM
>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
>>>> Cc: Lisie Foster
>>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Pilot Dogs Harness Question
>>>> 
>>>> Hello, again! OK this is my last post for today, *smiles*!
>>>> 
>>>> If anyone on the list has or has had a dog from Pilot Dogs, I was 
>>>> wondering if you'd be willing to describe what their harnesses look 
>>>> like and what makes them different from other schools' harnesses?
>>>> 
>>>> I know that they are made to accommodate a clip-on chest piece, that 
>>>> they have a white handle with a leather grip, but other than that, I 
>>>> can't quite figure out why they seem so different.
>>>> 
>>>> Are the stabilizing bunny ears attached differently? They seem 
>>>> different, somehow, perhaps closer to the body of the harness. Also, 
>>>> is there any reflective material on their harnesses at all?
>>>> 
>>>> Despite Pilot harnesses being the ones I've seen most often, since 
>>>> we live not too far from the school, I've never been able to figure 
>>>> out what it is that makes them so distinct from the other schools'
>>>> harnesses (like TSE, GDF, etc.).
>>>> 
>>>> Also, I love Pilot's leashes. I really wish I knew someone who sold 
>>>> them to the public, because I'd buy one in a second! I like the fact 
>>>> that they're adjustable and are quite a bit longer than most guide 
>>>> dog leashes. The leash I'm currently using is a typical guide dog 
>>>> style leash, but is *much* longer, being seven feet long from one 
>>>> end of the leather to the other. I believe Pilot's leashes are about 
>>>> six feet long.
>>>> 
>>>> If there are any Pilot graduates who might be willing to answer, I'd 
>>>> appreciate it so much. I love the look of Pilot's harnesses, yet 
>>>> can't exactly figure out what makes them so distinct.
>>>> 
>>>> You can email me off-list, too, at lisiefoster @ yahoo.com. Thank 
>>>> you all, again!
>>>> 
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Lisie and Finn, the Buckeyes
>>>> 
>>>> Lisie and Finn
>>>> lisiefoster at yahoo.com
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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