[NAGDU] {Spam?} Re: Cracks and training

Howard J. Levine WB2HWW at earthlink.net
Thu Apr 28 17:34:22 UTC 2016 

The question is why are most of the schools asking less of the dogs?

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Belville via
NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 12:02 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Lisa Belville
Subject: [NAGDU] {Spam?} Re: Cracks and training

No, I think so, too, Tracey.  When I look at now as compared to twenty years
ago when I didn't know anything about guide dogs, it does seem now as if
those of us without any useful travel vision need to be more proactive about
making sure our dogs do those basic guiding tasks that we took for granted
back then.

Someone brought up the example of not slowing down for changes in surfaces. 
I don't just mean cracks, I mean different colored or textured surfaces. 
That was one thing my first dog did during training twenty years ago.  In
fact, everyone's did in my class at that time, and it didn't matter who
could and could not see.

Another difference for me is  about finding curbs and crossing streets. 
Back in the day it was all up to the dog to find the curb and cross the
street to the opposite curb, even if it was a rounded intersection. 
Granted, there were far fewer rounded off set curbs, but there were plenty
of almost diagonal or otherwise not perfectly aligned intersections and the
dog was still responsible for the majority of the work.  Then ten years ago
I got my second dog from the same school and things were just the opposite. 
I was told it was my job to be sure I was at the curb, lined up accurately,
and  then be sure I was crossing as directly to the curb as possible so Katy
wouldn't miss the curb.  This is hard enough at a off set curb, but even
harder for someone like me who has a horrible veering tendency.  When I
don't have my dog, I use a long, NFB recommended length cane to compensate
for this, but I'd expect a dog to be trained to do this, or at least pick up
on this eventually and make the necessary course adjustments as we're moving
across the street. It's very similar to how I was trained with Paige last
year.  My biggest issue now is getting Paige to be a bit more assertive when
this happens.  I've already talked to GDA about this, and they might have to
come out here.  I'm trying really hard to keep that from happening. 
Something about me solving the problem myself without any help or some such
garbage.  <sigh>

I don't want to get into the whole totally blind versus partially sighted
dog user dichotomy.  I know that dogs can be very helpful for people with a
ton of usable vision and I have no problem with schools giving dogs to these
people.  I was a partial in high school in the late '80's and my O&M person
actually recommended that I try a dog.  I got rejected without even filling
out an ap because when they asked about whether or not I could see curbs I
said I could see the yellow they were using for curb edges.  I was a large
print reader with 20/400 vision back then, so way into the legally blind
distinction.  I can only imagine how much more interesting my life would
have been if I'd had a dog sooner than later, so I'm glad most schools have
loosened those requirements.

Lisa

Lisa Belville
missktlab1217 at frontier.com

Never make the same mistake twice. There are so many new ones, try a
different one each day.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tracy Carcione via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 8:54 AM
Subject: [NAGDU] Cracks and training


> Hi Dan.
> I too have a feeling that training isn't as rigorous as it used to be, 
> but I'm not sure behavior around cracked sidewalks is an example.
> I got my first dog in 1980.  We didn't have any trouble with cracked 
> sidewalks, not that I remember, anyway.  But we trained in downtown 
> San Rafael, which has much nicer sidewalks than Morristown.  And I 
> lived in St.
> Paul, which has much nicer sidewalks than my neighborhood in New Jersey.
> And I was young and flexible, too.
>
> I have a theory that dogs used to be trained as if their people would 
> be totally blind, and now they're trained as if their people will have 
> at least a little usable vision.  But I don't have any one thing I can 
> point to to prove it.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 8:46 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Dan Weiner
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Taking really long walks
>
> That's an interesting question, Tracey...I have noticed last few times 
> around at guide dog school that the dogs were not careful about 
> stopping for changes of surface or cracks at all, all right, every 
> little crack, that's a judgment ccall maybe but changes in surface 
> could be a problem or little steps or raised or falling areas.  I've 
> worked wit my pups when I get home an dwe have a happy medium but I 
> have wondered about that, I don't think my memory was failing me, I 
> thin that 22 years ago when I got my first dog the dogs were made to 
> be more careful.
> What do you think?
>
> Dan the man with Parker the nut
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy 
> Carcione via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 8:24 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Taking really long walks
>
> I got scraped up, but nothing broken, and now he's more careful.
> My neighborhood has a lot of cracked sidewalks because we have a lot 
> of large trees.  Trees are good; cracked sidewalks not so much.
> My dogs have all had to learn how to operate here.  If they stopped 
> for every crack, we'd never get anywhere, but, if they don't stop for 
> the worst ones, I trip.  I suppose I could learn to goose-step, 
> picking my feet way up, but I would feel ridiculous.  So my guys learn 
> what will trip me, and what probably won't.
> I was happy to find a whole section of sidewalk the town had repaired. 
> Wish
> they'd do more, but people around here are more interested in streets 
> than sidewalks.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of d m gina 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2016 4:46 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: d m gina
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Taking really long walks
>
> Original I am so sorry you fell.
> I hope you didn't brake anything.
> Maybe the next time you go to that area, your dog will slow down.
> Wishing you the best.
> message:
>> The fall is not OK, but there is no foolproof travel method. I missed 
>> a turn in a slanted and broken curb the other day and fell. I have 
>> fallen using my dog, too. It happens. What is not OK for me is if it 
>> happens because the dog is distracted by, say, other dogs.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer 
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2016 2:02 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Taking really long walks
>
>>                         The fall would not be ok with me. I know, 
>> easy for me to say since I don't have any emotions invested in the two of
you.
>> Is his pace comfortable for you?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy 
>> Carcione via NAGDU
>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 1:44 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Taking really long walks
>
>> The hiker says he works his dog 10-15 miles every day.  I was 
>> thinking about that.  His dog must have a good pace, or he's got a 
>> lot of free time.  Maybe he counts it as work time, keeping in shape for
hiking.
>
>> Krokus takes about 90 minutes to go 3 miles, though that includes 
>> many street crossings and a lot of cracked sidewalks.  Even so, he's 
>> a bit more of a stroller than I'd prefer.  On the other hand, I have 
>> tripped over a big crack and landed hard, which isn't any fun at all.
>
>> I think Krokus is just a guy who needs some time to react.  He can 
>> dodge someone rushing out from a shop we're passing, but he'd prefer 
>> to have some time to plan his moves.  Or maybe I'm making excuses for 
>> his
> ambling self.
>
>> Tracy
>
>
>
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