[NAGDU] Airlines/preboarding

Buddy Brannan buddy at brannan.name
Tue Dec 6 18:14:45 UTC 2016 

The sort of interesting thing about this is, even though we never really got training in getting our dogs under our seats, when I returned home with my first and second dogs, first from GDB in 1996 and second from TSE in 2003, I was assigned non-bulkhead seating both times. I must have read that we could get our dogs under seats somewhere, because I got Karl, first dog, under with no trouble. The only time he got up was when the plane took off and he sat up to see what all the noise was about. After he decided there was no problem, he laid right back down and fell asleep under the seat. Chet slept through the whole thing, or, at least, he didn't sit up as Karl had. I have flown with both Leno and Hilde also, with no trouble getting either one under a seat. I'd hasten to add that Hilde, when I flew with her, was only 16 months old, and I had never flown with her before. She'd backed in under chairs with me, or allowed herself to be backed up there, and I guess this was just some similar thing in her mind. In fact, I'd say she had less trouble with this than with sitting up on the city bus. (But I think that was because she wanted to greet her adoring public in the city bus.) Anyway, no trouble, and she traveled very well. Now when the time comes to put her on one of those tiny little turbo prop planes that has very tiny seats, and some with only one seat in the row, now that will be interesting.

BTW, Hilde is not a small dog, but she isn't as big as Marion's, or even stacy's. She's something around 63-65 pounds and25.5 inches tall. Very trim, and very tall, and long legs. So it's a little surprising how easily she fits down there.

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: buddy at brannan.name




> On Dec 6, 2016, at 12:00 PM, Michael Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Dan,
> 
> You have now heard from several people on this issue. Here are my thoughts.
> 
> Most schools do little to train guide dogs concerning going under airplane
> seats as they, at least tacitly, support dogs remaining in bulkhead rows for
> the dogs' "comfort". We as users have trained our dogs to back into rows and
> go under seats. The dog's confidence to do this is directly related to our
> confidence that they can go under the seat in front. Once dogs go into a
> non-bulkhead space and find that it is a place of comfort they are fine. It
> comes down to whether we as team leaders can educate our guides that these
> spaces are good.
> 
> There are some guide dogs that will never like the non-bulkhead space. Most
> guides do get used to it and even find it quite comfortable. The process
> begins with us. This is no different than any other dog training exercise.
> As with anything, the younger the dog when you begin training the more
> likely you will get the response you seek.
> 
> Take care. 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> Michael Hingson
> 
> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> "Speaking with Vision"
> Michael Hingson, President
> (415) 827-4084
> info at michaelhingson.com
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>  
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> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 7:50 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Airlines/preboarding
> 
> Well then please tell me how you shove our dog under a seat anjd get them to
> stay there, and don't say things like " "oh just apply what they taught you
> at school".  Not being sarcastic, geuninely curious, who knows I might try
> it.
> 
> Dan the man
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Stacie Hardy via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 10:42 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Stacie Hardy
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Airlines/preboarding
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> Hope our email finds everyone doing well and gearing up for the fast
> approaching Christmas holidays. I echo Marion's thoughts regarding this
> topic. My guide dog, Cash, AKA his majesty isn't exactly on the smaller end
> of the spectrum. He's a healthy 85 lbs and 26 inches at the shoulders.
> Fortunately, Cash is a nester, and likes to be in closed in spaces. I'm
> always amazed at how he can make himself fit. Raul and I do quite a bit of
> traveling and have a system in place that works for us. 
> Soon, we'll be adding another guide dog to the mix, and I'm sure, he or she
> will fit in just fine. We've had numerous discussions with flight attendants
> regarding our not wanting to sit in the bulkhead. One attendant even said he
> was going to call the "supervisor." That of course never happened, I think
> this guy was spouting out hot air.
> 
> --
> Stacie Hardy
> 
> In every guide dog, there beats the heart of a puppy raiser.
> Twitter: @PatriotsGirl7
> 
> On 12/6/2016 3:58 AM, NAGDU President via NAGDU wrote:
>> Jessica,
>> 
>> 	I, too, am part of a two-dog family. Actually we are currently a 
>> four-dog family, as we have my wife's retired guide dog and our 
>> daughter and granddaughter, along with their dog,  are currently 
>> living with us while their home is being built. When Merry and I 
>> travel by airline, we preboard, as well. I believe this is respectful 
>> of other passengers, as getting our dogs situated, especially my 
>> little
> boy, takes some time.
>> 
>> 	I would like to address the bulkhead issue for everyone's 
>> consideration. I know we have gone through this before, but it 
>> deserves repeating. About a year ago, there was a story about a 
>> toddler sitting on its parents lap when the airplane encountered 
>> severe turbulence. The child was thrown from the parent's lap and was 
>> injured. Consider the fact that there is no restraint for a dog lying 
>> in the bulkhead as there would be if the dog were under the seat.
>> Also, my little boy is about 42" long, 30" at the shoulders, and 
>> weighs in at 110 lbs. When he sits on the floor in front of me, I have 
>> no room for my 34" legs! Furthermore, if we were to encounter the type 
>> of turbulence experience by the aforementioned toddler, I would not 
>> want my 110-pound dog to become a missile in the cabin. I know we want 
>> our dogs to be comfortable; however, my dog and I are just as 
>> comfortable under the seat in front of me - even more comfortable than 
>> in the bulkhead - while being much safer for him and other passengers.
> BTW, I find seat belts rather uncomfortable, as well, but I wear them
> nonetheless!
>> 
>> 	I realize the choice of seating is a personal preference; however, I
> 
>> will continue to urge those with service dogs to consider making the 
>> safer choice!
>> 
>> Fraternally yours,
>> 
>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National 
>> Federation of the Blind
>> (813) 626-2789
>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>> 
>> 
>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the 
>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise 
>> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind 
>> people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is 
>> not what holds you back.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica 
>> Diaz PC via NAGDU
>> Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 10:47 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Jessica Diaz PC
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Airlines/preboarding
>> 
>> Hello,
>> My husband and I also are a 2 dog family and we always preboard. For 
>> me it is just easier and my main concern is getting the bags and dog 
>> situated in a not crowded environment. Also, as a side note, I use the 
>> line with Delta as well for requesting the bulkhead. For me when I 
>> fly, I want the dog to have room. He is big and his comfort matters to 
>> me. Delta is our go to provider for travel seeing as we use there 
>> credit
> card and always get tons of miles.
>> They are awesome.
>> Jessica Diaz And Saunders
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Wolf 
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2016 6:05 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Peter Wolf <pwolf1 at wolfskills.com>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Airlines/preboarding
>> 
>> Following up on Sandra's comment.
>> 
>> We do preboard, particularly because we are a two dog family (guide 
>> and service).  For the airline, it seems to fit their methods 
>> naturally to do pre boards.  But I am very sensitive to this, and 
>> wouldn't care if it was preboard, or just a regular seat halfway down 
>> the
> plane.
>> 
>> I know that no matter where we are, or in what seat, I am going to 
>> have
> have
>> whole plane load of people behind me, possibly waiting for me.  So.   My
> dog
>> and my luggage are dialed in.  I extend leash after turning right just 
>> inside the door to enter the center aisle, and tell Metukah "lead".
>> She tows me down the aisle lightly, two feet ahead of me, and I 
>> follow.  At our seat, we duck her in fast.  Standing, sitting or 
>> laying, I don't care, for now.  But she goes in and stays there out of 
>> the way.  It might even be in the seats opposite mine.  No prob 
>> because no
> one's on the flight yet because
>> we are preboarding.   Next, I throw the bags right onto the seats or seat
>> floor, and get out of the center aisle.  Being first aboard, the 
>> overhead bins are almost always empty.  Then, if you notice, actually 
>> plenty of room to stand in front of the aisle seat in our row, and 
>> just slip bags up into the overhead, like a "layover" basketball shot 
>> so to speak, even as people walk by in the center aisle onto the 
>> plane.  I don't mean throw them - I find that I can duck my head up 
>> from under the bin at the aisle seat and clear the bin, so that I can 
>> just reach up and roll in the bag without getting out to block the 
>> aisle.  Or, if this is a hassle for any of you, I also just get in the
> aisle and do it, but be out of the aisle in 30 seconds.
>> That would be if I'm loading my gear and my wife's too.
>> 
>> So for me this isn't about disability, except that it is nice to have 
>> pre boarded; it's really only a normal courtesy to treat loading in 
>> like a mission, clear out fast and let people get boarded!
>> 
>> Happy flying!
>> Peter
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