[NAGDU] What NAGDU is doing about fake service dog users

Marion Gwizdala blind411 at verizon.net
Mon Feb 8 16:32:16 UTC 2016


Dear All,

	NAGDU is putting together some materials to help us start conversations with local businesses and the public about our mutual rights and responsibilities. On march 15, we will celebrate the 5th anniversary of our NAGDU Information & Advocacy Hotline (888-NAGDU411) which launched concurrently with the effective date of new Department of Justice implementing regulations concerning service dogs under the Americans with Disabilities Act. In recognition of this anniversary, we are rolling out our shiny updated website. Along with this roll-out,  we are creating "Service Animals Welcome" decals that will contain our website and a QR code to bring the public to our website. We are also publishing an 8.5 X 14" glossy, full-color, four-fold brochure. These materials will help us get in front of proprietors and store managers to discuss the issues we have and offer them support and guidance on how to deal with questionable service dogs in their businesses. Finally, we will have two nationwide teleconferences to share this information - one for NFB advocates and another for businesses. Watch your in boxes for more information coming soon!

Fraternally yours,

Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
National Federation of the Blind
(813) 626-2789
(888) 624-3841 (Hotline)
President at nagdu.org
http://www.nagdu.org

High expectations create unlimited potential for the blind!


-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2016 9:27 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Tracy Carcione
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Fake Service Dogs Redux (Cross Posted)

I think David's idea is excellent.  I am willing to speak to local businesses and police about the issue, but I would welcome some guidance as to how to go about it.  A video or an outline/script would be helpful.
Tracy

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 1:31 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: David
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Fake Service Dogs Redux (Cross Posted)

Michael, I appreciate your response.  How about a NAGDU and NFB program to work with local Chambers of Commerce and police/sheriff departments?  
Perhaps a video could be created to help train businesses in appropriate responses to misbehaving dogs and handlers?  Create a campaign to train local activists to approach local publications, town councils, public agencies, and ... .

I don't have the answers.  While I am new to this issue, I'm not new to being visually impaired and I've dealt with a lot of tough issues in my life before now.

My point is that the problem is not going to go away and we need to be committed to collectively decide, and act, upon a strategy in an effective manner.  Guide schools have their own financial issues and their own perspectives.  Transferring part of the onus to them and claiming that a solution is subject to circumvention are non sequitorae.  That's kind of like saying gun manufacturers are responsible, too, and that if you regulate guns then only criminals will have guns.

We are the ones who are being affected.  In my opinion, saying that we are not willing to erode our freedoms and not accommodate legitimate interests of businesses and other members of the public is much like yelling, "Let freedom ring!" without addressing the reality of a far 
larger power base.    Their interests have a direct bearing on our 
freedoms and if their concerns remain unresolved, they will create remedies that fit their, not our, interests.

'Just sayin'.

David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL

On 2/6/2016 10:49 AM, Michael Hingson via NAGDU wrote:
> Please keep in mind that no matter the "certification" that the government could mandate someone on the internet will come up with a fraudulent version. No, certification is not the answer. We ALL need to help educate. The government needs to educate and empower. ALL guide dog schools need to take a much more active role in education and advocacy. The schools have as much responsibility to be a part of the solution as do we.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray 
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2016 8:16 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Fake Service Dogs Redux (Cross Posted)
>
> They are bogus though because you don't need one at the current time, those certifications. I fear that David may be right and eventually we will have to have ID because of all the people who are using animals fraudulently. As for behavior, if the dog is not behaving properly, they can ask it to leave whether it is a service animal or not. They need to understand this.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael 
> Babcock via NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 9:32 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michael Babcock <michael at yourownpay.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Fake Service Dogs Redux (Cross Posted)
>
> The worse thing is someone can get a “certification” for there dog for $64+shipping online.
> That’s it, no training, just a certification.
> I wish this wasn’t the case for sure!
> best.
> michael Babcock
>> On Feb 5, 2016, at 3:21 PM, David via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Unfortunately, I think all this fake service dog news is stirring up a lot of stuff right now.
>>
>> For the record, I have been, and I am, a big Costco fan and have had incredible service from their employees.  I am also impressed with the quality of their products.  However, I had an incident at Costco yesterday where I was told by the person at the door that if Claire Rose was a service animal I needed to fill out a form.  I told the person that I did not need to fill out a form, which two questions I was willing to answer, and that I had already answered one of them.  He did not ask what Claire Rose did for me, and told me that it was corporate policy and that I had to fill out the form.  I was in a hurry so I walked past him.  After my denial of service from Uber earlier in the day, I probably was bit grumpy.
>>
>> I called and left a message for the store manager.  He returned my call today and said that there was no form for anyone to fill out, but that people at the door were told to ask customers with service animals to read a memo informing them that Costco could not allow service animals to ride in carts.  This sounds entirely reasonable to me from a health standpoint.  We talked for quite a while and I think the guy at the door is going to get some retraining.  We had a long discussion about the problem stores are having with fake service animals and how they feel that they are stuck once the person says that Fluffy is a service animal.  I explained that animals that misbehave are very likely not service animals.  He said he also understood that people with legitimate service animals would likely not put them in carts, or would their animals bark and snarl at customers.
>>
>> This problem is not going to go away, folks.  Companies obviously believe that their hands are tied.  When so many people increasingly feel entitled to bring their pets anywhere they wish, it is lawsuit-suicide for stores and restaurants to call the police in the event that it turns out that the dog that appears to be untrained is actually a trained epilepsy, insulin, or whatever, alerter, even in states where fake service animal legislation is in place. after all, how are police going to determine whether the dog is a fake, or not. The criminal statutes for faking it simply have no reliable method for enforcement and we will increasingly become the targets of suspicion and accusation. I don't think that there are any easy answers, but we're seeing a surge of reactions from airline passengers and news organizations and we need a unified solution, not a state by state dribble of ineffective patches.
>>
>> The public is becoming angry.  Store and restaurant owners are becoming frustrated.  We are getting angry.
>>
>> In my opinion, because of the free-for-all attitude among those who want pet privileges equal to ours, I think the time has come to try to address a federal certificate, or ID, that perhaps is training school triggered in the case of program trained animals, or maybe regulations legitimizing training school IDs. We are also going to have to bite the bullet and figure out how to get self-trained animals certified without creating yet another bureaucracy.   The turmoil is not going to calm and I think we need to be proactive.  With so many having worked so hard to win our protected status, it is a bit of a disappointment to think that it could be eroded.  There is no doubt in my mind, however, that the fake dog issue will erode that status if we don't collectively figure out how best to effectively deal with it.
>>
>> David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL
>>
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>
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