[NAGDU] Urgent question, traveling abroad with guide dog

Mon Jun 20 18:25:04 UTC 2016

Dan,
I very much agree. I have traveled extensively without a dog, and though I had my fair share of difficulties, I always found travel fun. Traveling with Baldwin was great in many ways, but certainly painful given the bureaucracy.
I think it can be done better, but not sure how. There are many advocacy groups, and guide dog associations, nationally and internationally. I’m sure they are doing all they can.
I’d be very happy to help in any way I can, using my connections, and my experience with languages and cultures, but not even sure how to get started.
If anybody knows what would be a good way for me to contribute, and not just complain, please let me know.
Tom

> On Jun 18, 2016, at 10:06 AM, Dan Weiner via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> First of all thank you very very much for sharing your experience. 
> Now I will rant...in 80 or 90 years of guide dog use, there still isn't
> really any stream-lined way to do this, every country is different of
> course--smile and our dogs are basically upon entering considered a pet
> which must in essence have the same rigmarole of paperwork making travel
> with our dogs difficult and time-consuming to prepare.
> I don't have any solution to present as of present but frankly something
> needs to be stream-lind on an international level, I mean, with increased
> mobility training for blind people, computer technology, and transportation,
> it is natural that blind people will travel around more and more and that
> does mean country to country. I had the same issues the three times I
> traveled abroad, four times, actually with my dog, once to Mexico, twice to
> Russia, once to Japan.
> Always the stress and paperwork, always the  last moment worry about all the
> is and its being crossed.
> That's all I have to say, it concerns me because  I  would, indeed like to
> travel more abroad and using a guide dog is an important thing to me.
> 
> The last international travel expereince I had with a guide dog or without
> was 13 years aago.
> Anyway, thanks again Tom and I hope you had an enjoyable trip.
> 
> Dan and the Parker Hound
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tom Babinszki via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2016 8:55 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Tom Babinszki
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Urgent question, traveling abroad with guide dog
> 
> A few weeks ago I have asked for your help regarding traveling to Hungary
> with my dog.
> We made it, just got back last weekend.
> 
> The process was rather complicated, so I thought I would share it with you,
> in case it helps anybody in the future.
> It is a slightly longer piece, probably those could benefit from it who are
> planning to travel abroad with a 10 day requirement and do not have a quick
> access to a USDA office to have the documents certified.
> For others, probably the whole process and experience will be different.
> 
> So, 10 day requirement: I believe it applies to most EU countries. Your vet
> has to sign the necessary paperwork within 10 days of your arrival to the
> target country. This means that due to travel length and time change, flying
> to Europe it is really 9 days before your departure time. If this day falls
> on a Saturday, this can potentially shave off a couple of days from the
> other end as well, so now we are down to 7. I wonder what happens if
> anything gets delayed unexpectedly, as it did on the way back. In my case,
> this date was a Sunday, so I scheduled an appointment with the vet first
> thing on Monday morning.
> 
> There are three ways to get the documents certified by the USDA, before your
> departure at the airport at the USDA desk if your airport has one. You can
> visit your nearest USDA office within ten days of your arrival to your
> destination, or you can mail it to your USDA office.
> Since I was told that Cleveland doesn't have a USDA desk, and the nearest
> office is about a 3 hour drive from us, I decided to mail the documents. If
> I couldn't find anybody to drive me, this trip from our house would take
> twice as long using public transportation.
> The USDA recommended that I overnight the letter, and if I enclose an
> overnight return label they will send it back to me the same way, otherwise
> it is regular mail. Chances are I would have received it in one aday by
> regular mail, but I didn't want to risk it.
> On Monday I mailed out the forms, which the USDA received on Tuesday
> morning. On Wednesday I got a call to clarify my destination, then I
> received a call from my Vet on Thursday that the USDA needed her to have one
> page signed, apparently the signature was at the wrong place. If this page
> was ok, there is a good chance they would have mailed the document back on
> Thursday for me to receive it on Friday. Instead, I overnighted the newly
> signed page, which got to the USDA on early Friday morning. I called them to
> doublecheck if everything was ok, when they informed me that currently they
> didn't have a vet there to certify my documents, but they will do it on
> Monday. My trip started on Tuesday afternoon. For lack of better, I agreed.
> On Monday morning I called again, everything was fine, my document was going
> to be signed that day. Since my UPS online tracking didn't show it was
> mailed, I called on Monday afternoon, when I was assured that the document
> is read and they put it on the mail after the office closes. At this point,
> we were less then 24 hours before my scheduled departure. Five minutes
> before the office closed, I got a call from the USDA vet asking me to
> clarify if I'm attending any event in Hungary. Now, why does this matter,
> and why they couldn't ask me six days earlier is beyond my understanding. I
> found it more frustrating that my papers weren't certified after I was told
> that they were ready to be mailed.
> It was Monday at 10 PM when UPS scanned my letter, which I received on
> Tuesday morning. I'm a chill guy, but I was getting nervous.
> So, four hours before I had to leave the house it became certain that
> Baldwin can come with me.
> 
> In an optimal case, if all papers are filled out properly, and they have a
> vet at the USDA on a given day, the whole process could have been completed
> between Monday morning and Wednesday morning.
> At least, now I know what went wrong, what do I need to doublecheck, and the
> other advantage is that my vet now has the experience of filling out the
> form, and probably this mistake won't slip in again.
> I'm not sure how I'm going to approach it next time, I will probably feel
> more confident taking my forms in personally, though this time it would have
> taken me two full days of travel.
> 
> Interestingly, nobody ever asked me for the paperwork. I even took Baldwin
> out in Switzerland when we had a short layover, people were helpful, but
> never asked on what basis I'm planning to take my dog out on Swiss grounds.
> Then came Hungary, it is a unique case, because I am a dual citizen, so it
> is possible that they thought I'm coming home one way or another, but nobody
> wanted to know where my dog is from, even though in Hungary it is mandatory
> to have a red cross on the harness for guide dogs, at least for those which
> were trained there, for identification. On the way back, our last flight got
> cancelled, so we had to spend a night in Toronto. Again, nobody wanted to
> know on what basis I'm bringing a dog from Europe. Though it is tempting not
> to worry about papers next time, it is worth noting that all government
> agencies cliam that without the proper paperwork, they may end up putting
> the dog down, so it is not worth risking.
> 
> Also, as a side note, I found it more difficult to have a guide dog in
> Hungary. Baldwin was a great help for me, but people didn't seem to find it
> too natural that a blind person is getting around with the dog. When I went
> anywhere with friends and family, it was a regular question if we can go to
> certain places with a dog, and I found that many more people wanted to play
> with Baldwin when he was working. Maybe it was the lack of the identifying
> red cross on his harness, but I just still don't get it, why would you want
> to play with a stranger's dog you don't know, but I guess it is a different,
> already well-documented topic.
> 
> I know it was a long rambling, please understand, I'm not trying to
> complain, I did my venting with my family and friends, but since I haven't
> seen much conversation about traveling abroad, I hope this will help someone
> in the future.
> 
> Again, thank you for all your help you offered when I was getting the
> preparation started.
> 
> Tom and Baldwin
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 1, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Tom Babinszki <tbabinszki at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Thank you for your help. Yes, it is a bit complicated to say the least.
>> I'm trying to avoid a personal trip and rather send the docs 
>> overnight, because the nearest USDA location is a half day drive even 
>> more with public transportation.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Apr 30, 2016, at 8:20 PM, terrie arnold via NAGDU 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes you have to get a health certification through the US department 
>>> of
>> agriculture for your dog, going to a foreign country first question I 
>> have for you where did your dog graduate from if you want the pilot 
>> dogs you may have to pay a fee of $550 to get your dog in the country 
>> we may have to send that before hand so went to England last year and 
>> had to pay the fee five days beforehand didn't know about it so that 
>> yes you may need to get your dog wormed you may need to get him rebeck 
>> sedated for rabies as well so it might be a pricey proposition taking 
>> your dog to hungry sorry to say so check very very very carefullyx
>>> 
>>> My thoughts for today
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 30, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Tom Babinszki via NAGDU 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Sorry for the cross post, just would like to make sure I get 
>>>> answers
>> due to
>>>> the short time I'm working with.
>>>> The situation is that I'm scheduled to travel to Hungary on May 10 
>>>> with
>> my
>>>> guide dog.
>>>> I received some information on what paperwork I need to have filled 
>>>> out, but it is pretty confusing.
>>>> I have an appointment with my vet on Monday morning to fill out the
>> forms.
>>>> I would like to make sure I have everything covered and I don't 
>>>> need to part with my dog along the way.
>>>> I called each airline I'm traveling with, and had them add a note 
>>>> that
>> I'll
>>>> be traveling with my dog. As I understand, it is not necessary, but 
>>>> I
>> heard
>>>> too many horror stories recently.
>>>> I called the USDA, and I was advised that since they don't have a 
>>>> desk
>> at
>>>> the Cleveland airport, I need to send them the forms to be certified.
>>>> I need to give these forms to a certified vet, within ten days of 
>>>> my arrival to Hungary.
>>>> One form is an English-Hungarian bilingual form about 
>>>> non-commercial
>> animal
>>>> movement:
>>>> 
>> https://www.aphis.usda.gov/regulations/vs/iregs/animals/downloads/hu_p
>> et_non_comm_fil_hc_ab.pdf
>>>> The other is the dog's health certificate.
>>>> Is this the APHIS7001 form? Is this different from the 
>>>> English-Hungarian form?
>>>> Is there any other forms I will need?
>>>> I also read that I will have to enclose a check, but when I called 
>>>> the
>> USDA
>>>> they never told me about this, I only found this info online today.
>>>> Is this correct? Who do I make this check to?
>>>> Is this the correct address I need to send the forms to?
>>>> 12927 Stonecreek Drive
>>>> Pickerington, OH
>>>> The forms and instructions do not contain an address.
>>>> Thank you for all your help!
>>>> Tom
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> om
>>> 
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