[NAGDU] {Spam?} RE: {Spam?} Re: Mind Blown....

Sun May 8 03:55:41 UTC 2016

Tammi,My point is the three task minimum should not be a requirement for a dog to be considered a Service Dog.  I was in no way saying that Service Dogs should all be mono tasked. I know several SD Owners whose dogs do multiple tasks for their owners multiple disabilities,  but I also know several SD Owners whose SD does just one task.I see Guiding as being analogous to a computer.It's a complex system made up of many components. For a computer all the major components need to be there for the computer to work. Guiding is the same. If all the major components ( microtasks ) aren't there the dog isn't guiding.

Yours, Very Sincerely And Respectfully,

Wayne M. Scace 

-------- Original message --------
From: Tami Jarvis via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
Date: 5/7/2016  14:59  (GMT-06:00) 
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
Cc: Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> 
Subject: [NAGDU] {Spam?} Re:  Mind Blown.... 

Wayne,

Yeah. The three-task minimum could be life and death for some service 
dog users. Literally. I know some medical alert dogs also bring a 
medicine bag and/or push a button on an emergency call device and/or a 
few other things. But some simply need to alert the handler in time for 
the handler to deal with the situation before it becomes critical. This 
enables the handler to go to the grocery store without ending up in a 
coma in the middle of the floor. So how is this not good enough? I was 
talking to my friend with the PTSD service dog. Out in public, where 
access laws are relevant, the dog alerts my friend to an impending 
episode so my friend can do deep breathing or leave the stressful area 
or whatever. Sometimes, the dog then adds pressure to help my friend 
regain her balance more quickly. So that's two. The dog does some 
additional things at home, so that puts her over three. But if these 
licensing laws are about public access, would the at-home tasks apply? 
It's an entertaining thing ponder, if one is that hard up for 
entertainment. But if the three-task minimum is in a law, then that matters.

Some people see guide dog work as many separate tasks; others see it as 
you do -- one task with a lot of components. I tend towards that view 
myself, with obstacle avoidance and curb stops being a part of the task 
of guiding. I think of "find" as a separate task, I suppose, and I see 
it as applying to my disability, so there we're up to two. Still not 
legal, depending on who is deciding officially how many tasks are 
included in guiding.

The legislative efforts I've seen the past year or so would definitely 
pose problems for owner-trainers. But as written, they would cause some 
of the same problems for people with dogs from the programs. They would 
also need to have their dogs tested before they could continue using 
them, for instance. At least service dog users who could drive could get 
their dog to the testing site. If your guide dog is suddenly not a 
service dog because it does not have the license, you can't just hop on 
the bus to go get it, can you? There's no grandfather clause in these 
proposals to cover that. Until you wrangle up a ride to go get that 
license, that guide dog you've been using for the past five years is now 
officially a pet and cannot go where pets are not allowed. Oh, and who 
pays for you to get there? By the ADA, they can't charge for the 
license, and probably not for the test. But what about the 50-mile cab 
ride. Or, for some folks, the 300-miles there, another 300 miles back, 
and a stay in a hotel? Oh, and don't forget meals! I'm suddenly 
picturing myself lugging around a 3-day supply of peanut butter 
sandwiches, along with dog food and everything else.

The people behind these legislative efforts claim loudly and piously 
that they're just looking after the rights of disabled people and making 
sure they're protected. The inevitable results of their efforts would 
demonstrate something quite different.

Meanwhile, Fluffy has a shiny laminated license that looks just like the 
official one. Her mom whipped it up on the computer, paid 5 bucks to get 
it laminated, and they're good to go to the store! Fewer real service 
dogs in stores means more room for Fluffy!

Tami

On 05/07/2016 11:47 AM, Wayne And Harley via NAGDU wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Jenine,So ADI, by accepting IGDF's standards for Guide Dog training has, tacitly, admitted that their "One size fits all" approach to Service Dog training cannot cover all Service Dog modalities!!Does acceptance of IGDF's standards mean that the idiotic "three task requirement" rule ( Which is counter to the language in the ADA ) doesn't apply to Guide Dogs?Here's why I ask. My Guide Dog does one work, or task, if you will, its a huge complex type of work/task, it's called guiding. Guiding itself, while large and complex, is made up of several microtasks which if one was missing would mean he hasn't finished training to be a Guide Dog. Conversely, those micro tasks do not and cannot stand alone. That "three task requirement" would also mean that many current SD's that perform only one mitigating task directly related to their owner's disability would not be considered, by ADI and their member organisations, as SD's simply because their Owner only needs one task done 
 to mitiga
te their disability. Take medical alert Dogs and seizure response dogs for example. The next question that occurs to my fertile mind is, are the Guide Dog schools fully on board with ADI's agenda?The next point that I wish to raise, as many Guide Dog Owners may not be aware of this is.Wiithin the Guide Dog Owning Community, Owner Trainers are a very small minority, as the majority of Guide Dog Owners work with programme trained Guide Dogs. Within the Greater Service Dog Owning community this is reversed. Service Dog Owner Trainers predominate and programme trained Service Dog Owners are the vast minority. The other Service Dog Modalities have a clear majority and Guide Dog Owners ( both Programme trained and Owner Trained Guide Dog Owners ) are a miniscule minority.If ADI's "solution" to the fake disabled person "problem" a very large number of the disabled will become disenfranchised and be discriminated against because not every disability has a corresponding Training progr
 amme, or 
a programme that would train for the mix of disabilities that so many Service Dog Owner Trainers suffer from. Nor could those that will be disenfranchised possibly afford the cost of going to an ADI registered programme. Here the Guide Dog Owning community has a clear advantage as most Guide Dog Schools charge the recipients a nominal fee for their Service Dogs.I, for one, would rather not lose my civil rights as they currently stand and be fitted for ADI's version of the "Yellow Star Of David".
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> Yours, Very Sincerely And Respectfully,
>
> Wayne M. Scace
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> -------- Original message --------
> From: Jenine Stanley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Date: 5/7/2016  08:29  (GMT-06:00)
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jenine Stanley <jeninems at icloud.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Mind Blown....
>
> Wayne,
>
> Before you panic, ADI has adopted the IGDF standards as their standards for guide dog schools.
>> On May 6, 2016, at 11:38 PM, Wayne And Harley via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> My mind is BLOWN, I just did a casual search that took only a few minutes on ADI's website. Every major Guide Dog Training programme in the U.S.  is accredited by ADI. The only ones that I didn't see there were Pilot and a young school in Mississippi called Gallant Hearts....And here I thought they adhered to IGDF's standards and Guidelines. ....
>>
>>
>> Yours, Very Sincerely And Respectfully,
>>
>> Wayne M. Scace
>> _______________________________________________
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