[NAGDU] New equipment! YEEEEEHAAAAAAA!!!!!

Lisa Belville missktlab1217 at frontier.com
Sun Nov 20 16:30:20 UTC 2016


This sounds really neat.  I like the GDA harness, but having something that 
wouldn't show dirt would be nice.  How does this sports harness design work 
for a dog that doesn't have a hard pull?  I have this nasty habit of over 
compensating and getting ahead of Paige because she's a very light puller 
even when we're doing a moving turn.

Lisa Belville
missktlab1217 at frontier.com

If the early bird gets the worm...can I sleep in and get some bacon???
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2016 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New equipment! YEEEEEHAAAAAAA!!!!!


> Tracy,
>
> Have Julie make you a new handle. You'll probably need to send her the 
> clips from your current handle, but believe me when I tell you, the 
> connection on the new handle is much, much firmer than it was on the PVC 
> handles.
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>
>
>
>
>> On Nov 20, 2016, at 9:57 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have a sports-style harness from PawPower.  I like its lightness, and 
>> it fits well, but I feel like the connection between the body and the 
>> handle is not as solid as I prefer.  If the dog is walking slowly, or not 
>> really pulling hard, his movements aren't transmitted as well as they are 
>> with my TSE harness.  I really have to remind myself to pull back on the 
>> handle, to make it as firm as possible.  This may be sloppy practice on 
>> my part, not always pulling back, but I wish the connection was firmer. 
>> But I do really like that the handle is easy to remove, and maybe 
>> firmness and removability are antithetical.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan 
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 11:38 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Buddy Brannan
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New equipment! YEEEEEHAAAAAAA!!!!!
>>
>> Hey Sandy,
>>
>> In fact, mine is one of Julie's. Yes, I think the nylon is a bit more 
>> pliable and does allow for a snugger fit. The feel is somewhat different 
>> from leather for sure, and the harness itself is a lot lighter.
>>
>> I got it in blue, but didn't get any reflective material sewn in. I may 
>> see if I can find some reflectie tape for the handle. I had an LED light, 
>> but lost it and I think it died anyway, so will be looking for more like 
>> that. I have a flat collar on her as well that has reflective material in 
>> it.
>>
>> Totally know where you're coming from with the quiet cars and people not 
>> waching where they're aiming them, especially when they're backing up. 
>> Just because you're moving backwards doesn't mean you get to not watching 
>> where you're aiming your car, please and thank you.
>>
>> So, be careful out there.
>>
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 19, 2016, at 10:49 PM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Buddy,
>>>
>>> It sounds like a very nice harness.  Excuse me for being a bit nosey but
>>> what color did you get for your dog?  Did you have any reflective 
>>> material
>>> sewn into the harness body or handle to make you and your dog more 
>>> visible
>>> at night?  That is important especially this time of year when it gets 
>>> dark
>>> so early.  The Pilot harness does not have any reflective material on it 
>>> so
>>> I use a reflective collar on her neck and wrap reflective collars round 
>>> the
>>> harness handle.  I did have a couple of bone shaped lights to use when 
>>> it
>>> was dark but I am totally blind so cannot see if they are working or 
>>> not.
>>> They do not get warm when turned on so you cannot feel any heat from 
>>> them to
>>> be sure they are working.  Eva has a reflective tag with my name and 
>>> address
>>> but it really does not show up well.   In my senior housing development 
>>> I
>>> have had a few very close calls almost getting hit as neighbors are 
>>> backing
>>> out of their driveways, especially by the new quiet cars.  I also have 
>>> some
>>> hearing loss so do not hear most cars until they almost run over me.
>>> Fortunately Miss Eva has very good traffic checks so I always trust her 
>>> when
>>> she makes a sudden stop.  Then I give her lots of praise as I feel hat 
>>> quiet
>>> car pass us.  If anyone has any ideas to make Eva more visible at night, 
>>> I
>>> would appreciate hearing them.  I know you can buy reflective vests for
>>> people but, can you get them for a dog?
>>>
>>> Now that I hear more about these nylon harnesses, I may consider getting 
>>> one
>>> for Eva.  The trick when ordering a harness is getting the proper fit. 
>>> If
>>> you measure the dog exactly then a well made harness that fits will 
>>> allow
>>> you to feel every movement.  That is what is wrong with many guide dog
>>> school harnesses.  They often do not fit properly.  For example, Eva's
>>> harness is too big in the chest area.  It sticks out far enough that she 
>>> can
>>> wriggle her front legs out of the harness when she is lying down in it.
>>> Even when I have it in a snug fitting belly strap hole, it still moves
>>> around on her slim golden body.  I also prefer a harness with the 
>>> martingale
>>> strap.  I think it allows you to better feel the dog's movements and 
>>> keeps
>>> the harness centered on the dog.  Eva has a very gentle, almost nothing
>>> pull, so a better fitting harness might allow me to more accurately 
>>> follow
>>> her.  also wonder if the softer more pliable nylon allows the harness to 
>>> fit
>>> closer to the dog's body.  Julie, you make harness so maybe you can 
>>> chime in
>>> here too.  One question I have is, how do we get the correct 
>>> measurements
>>> for the harness?  What measurements do you need?  Where do you place the
>>> measuring tape so you get it right?  I love the fact that on this list 
>>> we
>>> can share our questions and read other peoples experiences with their 
>>> new
>>> products.  Thanks Buddy for your information.
>>>
>>> Sandra
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: Buddy Brannan via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 6:48 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Buddy Brannan
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New equipment! YEEEEEHAAAAAAA!!!!!
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'd agree. The harness isn't the problem here. You need more and better
>>> control. I've seen the Pilot leashes and I agree, they're way too long. 
>>> A
>>> shorter leash will probably help. Are you sure your prong is fitted
>>> properly? It should be up behind her ears. Anyway, I like the sport 
>>> harness.
>>> I'm not sure why it's called that, but the freedom of movement in the 
>>> handle
>>> would definitely allow for a lot faster movements, tighter turns, and 
>>> the
>>> like. But yes, I like it very much.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Nov 19, 2016, at 6:11 PM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dar:
>>>>
>>>> I don't think a different harness will help with your current problem.
>>>> Remember what the Pilot trainers had you do on class.  To have better
>>>> control put the leash into your right hand.  This allows you to feel 
>>>> what
>>>> she is doing and gives you much better control when she is sniffing or
>>>> trying to grab stuff off the ground.  You will want to hold the  leash 
>>>> as
>>>> short, about the middle of the length of the Pilot Dog leashes.   The
>>>> reason
>>>> is to have it short enough so it is a bit taught, just enough so your 
>>>> dog
>>>> knows you are ready and willing to correct her if she puts her head 
>>>> down.
>>>> I
>>>> purchased a shorter leash because I do not like the Pilot Dog leashes 
>>>> they
>>>> give us on class.  Eva does not sniff or scavenge but I use the leash 
>>>> in
>>>> my
>>>> right hand to control her tendency to be over friendly and wanting to 
>>>> play
>>>> with anyone who comes close to her.  As for waiting until the dog is
>>>> three,
>>>> Eva is almost four and still wants to play with everyone she sees.
>>>> Sometimes we just have to deal with a behavior as long as we can keep 
>>>> it
>>>> under good control and that you are safe.  Penney's distractions 
>>>> causing
>>>> you
>>>> to fall off a curb is definitely not safe.  I hope your ankle was not
>>>> injured too severely.  Good luck to you with your very stubborn girl.
>>>>
>>>> Sandra and Eva
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>> From: d m gina via NAGDU
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 5:31 PM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Cc: d m gina
>>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] New equipment! YEEEEEHAAAAAAA!!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Why is it called a sports harness, do you like it better than the 
>>>> regular
>>>> one.
>>>> My dog gets to a place and nose goes on the ground or carpet in a
>>>> building.
>>>> I try to stop her but that is out of the question until she thinks she
>>>> is done to see if there is anything for her to pick up first.
>>>> I had a person walk away because they didn't like the way I was
>>>> training the dog.
>>>> Using anything over the nose just doesn't work, I am not strong enough
>>>> to fight her.
>>>> She knows this.
>>>> She also doesn't listen to the the prong collar, she feels when she is
>>>> good and ready to listen she does.
>>>> We do everything that is sugested.
>>>> My husband feels this lady here in town is to expensive.
>>>> The other day I twisted my ankle falling off a curb because we wanted
>>>> to visit with the uber driver.
>>>> I screamed was worried my face would hit the car, glad it didn't.
>>>> She got truly corrected.
>>>> When wwalking and someone comes by on the left side sniffing is what 
>>>> you
>>>> do.
>>>> I even take my knee and bump her on the side to get her back to working
>>>> mode again.
>>>> I was told to get a smaller collar as I did, but all that does is when
>>>> correcting she gets it that she needs to stop doing what she was told 
>>>> to
>>>> stop.
>>>> Where I will stop when I am ready.
>>>> She gets lots of loving playing when we can play outside, quite cold 
>>>> now.
>>>> We also play in the house to get rid of energy.
>>>> I am told give her to three she will grow up really?
>>>> What happens when she turns four loll.
>>>> on a one to one she is good, she wants to do what ever I request.
>>>> So I love reading this stuff to see if there is just one more thing
>>>> that I could buy that would help me out.
>>>> Now I know one shouldn't call the dog a bad name, trust me, when I
>>>> landed on the ankel I echoed all the way down the block.
>>>> A couple came by thinking that the driver pushed me down, where he 
>>>> didn't.
>>>> I am afraid of curbs and steps for this reason.
>>>> Ok my rant is over, I am sure I will be blamed for all of it and that 
>>>> is
>>>> fine.
>>>> Until the shoes I wear are walked in, the blame can't be all of me, and
>>>> I don't give up I will keep trying.
>>>>
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> Buddy:
>>>>> thanks for sharing  this, and i need to check out that harness:)
>>>>> hoping your well, and keep the wonderful work up!
>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2016, at 6:37 AM, Buddy Brannan via NAGDU 
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Posted to Hilde's blog yesterday. Feel free to share. I'm happy to 
>>>>>> too
>>>>>> Julie's horn for her :-) (since she sort of can't on this list...) No
>>>>>> financial interest and all that jazz.
>>>>
>>>>>> New Equipment! YEEEEEEEHAAAAAAA!!!!
>>>>
>>>>>> November 18, 2016
>>>>>> We interrupt this streak of not posting anything with a post.
>>>>
>>>>>> Oohā?¦a post? Really? Maybe Iā?Tll post about our trip to the NFBP
>>>>>> convention next, but this isnā?Tt that post.
>>>>
>>>>>> Over the past few weeks, Iā?Tve gotten some gear from Julie Johnson,
>>>>>> whose site can be found at http://guide-and-service-dogs.com/. 
>>>>>> Besides
>>>>>> useful information, Julie manufactures a line of some dead useful 
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> at really good prices. You can also buy from Amazon if you like, as 
>>>>>> she
>>>>>> sells there. Iā?Tve gotten a few of them that Iā?Td like to talk
>>>>>> about.
>>>>
>>>>>> Iā?Tll briefly mention the first aid kit, which doesnā?Tt appear to 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> her site. Itā?Ts a handy zippered bag full of, surprisingly, first 
>>>>>> aid
>>>>>> supplies. There are bandages, ointment, vet wrap, and an emergency
>>>>>> blanket. Itā?Ts a handy size to stash either in your home or in your
>>>>>> luggage for travel.
>>>>
>>>>>> Next, the collar bells are a pretty good idea for keeping track of 
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> dog around the house, so that s/he will (theoretically) stay out of
>>>>>> trouble. Julie sent me a set in trade for an honest review, and then
>>>>>> Amazon changed their review rules. Still, Iā?Tll happily give an 
>>>>>> honest
>>>>>> review for them anyway. These are just your standard jingle bells on 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> nylon strap with side release buckle. The set comes with three sizes:
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> set with two very small bells, a medium sized bell, and a larger 
>>>>>> bell,
>>>>>> each on its own strap. These would be great for a fairly quiet indoor
>>>>>> environment. The bells arenā?Tt very loud, so they wouldnā?Tt be
>>>>>> appropriate for outdoor use. The strap is only a couple inches long,
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the plastic side release buckle closure, sort of like the buckles 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> snap your backpack together. Be aware, however, that these buckles 
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> very small, so if you have dexterity issues, you may have trouble 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> them. The set I have is not adjustable, but Julie is thinking about
>>>>>> making some that can be shortened if necessary. These would be most
>>>>>> appropriate on a flat collar; just put the strap around the width of 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> collar and close, letting them hang down. I donā?Tt think these would
>>>>>> work very well with a slip collar, though they might with a 
>>>>>> martingale
>>>>>> collar. I can usually hear these, when Fiona isnā?Tt barking loudly, 
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> if Hilde is not in stealth mode, so theyā?Tre pretty handy. Iā?Td
>>>>>> probably get louder bells, just because we have some loud household
>>>>>> members, but it wouldnā?Tt matter a lot, because this dog can move
>>>>>> unbelievably quietly.
>>>>
>>>>>> There are two things that a guide dog user must have. OK, three. One 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> collar of some kind. Hilde wears both a flat collar, for tags, and a
>>>>>> training collar, either a toggle collar or a prong collar, depending.
>>>>>> Julie has flat collars and martingale collars, but I donā?Tt have
>>>>>> either
>>>>>> one of those. I do have a collar with Hildeā?Ts name and my phone
>>>>>> number
>>>>>> on it, in case she gets lost. This collar also has reflective stuff 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> it. I have a link somewhere if anyoneā?Ts interested.
>>>>
>>>>>> But the other two things that a guide dog handler really has to have 
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> a leash and a harness. Julie makes both out of quality nylon webbing.
>>>>>> Weā?Tre most of us used to leather, and leather is really nice. I 
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> leather harness as well, and itā?Ts great. Durable, classy, 
>>>>>> practical,
>>>>>> fairly easy to maintain. Nylon, however, also has advantages. Itā?Ts
>>>>>> light weight and even easier to clean, and donā?Tt forget, itā?Ts 
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> inexpensive. Iā?Tve used a nylon harness over the past six or seven
>>>>>> years
>>>>>> on and off. I like them especially for these Erie winters with all 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> dirt and grit and road salt and heavens only know what. So really,
>>>>>> donā?Tt discount the nylon.
>>>>
>>>>>> First, the leash. You can get any length you like. I prefer shorter
>>>>>> leashes, such as the Seeing Eye uses, about four feet long when in 
>>>>>> its
>>>>>> extended long leash length. However, you can get one thatā?Ts 5 or 6
>>>>>> feet
>>>>>> if you prefer.
>>>>
>>>>>> Julie does something kind of neat, for which I will take at least
>>>>>> partial
>>>>>> credit. I say partial because I think thereā?Ts a school that does 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same thing, but I canā?Tt remember which one.
>>>>
>>>>>> Iā?Tm lazy. So last year, when Hilde was a pup, I called Handcraft
>>>>>> Collars to ask if they could make me some guide dog leashes out of
>>>>>> tubular nylon. I had to describe what I wanted. So, instead of the 
>>>>>> usual
>>>>>> arrangement where you can hook to one ring for a short leash, towards
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> bottom snap, and another ring near the top, for a long leash, I just 
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> Debbie put in one ring at the bottom, to make a short leash, while
>>>>>> leaving a standard handle with the bolt snap strung on the end of the
>>>>>> handle. That way, all you have to do to get a long leash is 
>>>>>> disconnect
>>>>>> from the bottom ring. Several months later, I told Julie about that, 
>>>>>> she
>>>>>> said, ā?oHey, why didnā?Tt I think of that?ā?¯, and thus, the Quick
>>>>>> Convert Service Dog Leash was born.
>>>>
>>>>>> I now have one of those, too. Itā?Ts a little heavier than the ones
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> Handcraft. Still, the stitching is quality, as is the hardware. 
>>>>>> Rather
>>>>>> than a standard ring, Julie uses a D-ring. The bolt snaps are heavy 
>>>>>> duty
>>>>>> ones, thicker than the ones on my Handcraft leashes. She uses nylon
>>>>>> webbing, which is a bit grippier than the very slippery tubular nylon
>>>>>> is,
>>>>>> as well as a bit wider. Actually, the 3/4 inch width is as close to
>>>>>> perfect as it gets. Itā?Ts good stuff, and I highly recommend these,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> not just because it was sort of my lazy idea. Sort of. I stole it 
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> somewhere else. Southeastern maybe?
>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, the harness. Iā?Tm a budding guide dog equipment nerd. I 
>>>>>> love
>>>>>> guide dog equipment. Iā?Td love to see all sorts of different harness
>>>>>> designs. Even so, I have very definite opinions on what makes a good
>>>>>> harness. Of course, it has to be as comfortable as possible for the 
>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>> Ease of putting on and taking off is desirable. A removable handle is 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> definite plus, and, while I wouldnā?Tt say Iā?Td never have a harness
>>>>>> without a removable handle, Iā?Tll always take a removable handle 
>>>>>> over
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> fixed handle. One thing thatā?Ts an absolute deal breaker, however, 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the martingale strap. Ever since I got my first Seeing Eye dog, I 
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> gotten very spoiled by this seemingly simple extra strap that runs
>>>>>> between the dogā?Ts front legs, from the belly strap to the chest 
>>>>>> strap
>>>>>> in whatever configuration. Besides giving the dog more to pull into, 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> extra strap stabilizes the harnessā?Ts movement from side to side (so
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> doesnā?Tt move so much), and makes it harder for your dog to
>>>>>> accidentally
>>>>>> back out of the harness.
>>>>
>>>>>> The Sports Style Guide Harness meets all of these requirements. This 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the second harness of this design that Iā?Tve owned, and Julie has 
>>>>>> made
>>>>>> some improvements. Itā?Ts made with wide 2-inch nylon straps and 
>>>>>> comes
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> several different colors. For Hilde, I got it in blue. The harness
>>>>>> straps
>>>>>> are padded to make it more comfortable for the dog to wear. Youā?Tll
>>>>>> notice right away that the design of the harness is different from 
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> guide dog schools. Instead of one strap that goes around the chest 
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> one side of the dog to the other, the harness is made with two straps
>>>>>> that run from the back strap, over the dogā?Ts shoulders, and meeting
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the center of the dogā?Ts chest at the breastbone. The martingale 
>>>>>> strap
>>>>>> then runs back from this juncture, such that the three straps form
>>>>>> something like a print letter Y. Youā?Tll also notice the absence of
>>>>>> handle stabilizing loops, or ā?obunny earsā?¯ that are present on
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> American harnesses. This isnā?Tt nearly as scary as you might 
>>>>>> suppose.
>>>>>> While it does afford the opportunity for more freedom of movement for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> dog, the new handle has a much more rigid connection with the 
>>>>>> harness,
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> the handle really isnā?Tt in a lot of danger of flipping up too high 
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> it could with the previous PVC handle. Anyway, since there are no 
>>>>>> loops,
>>>>>> thereā?Ts less bulk, and less bulk for your dog to have to lie on,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> sounds a lot more comfortable. The belly strap is adjustable with a
>>>>>> sliding buckle, and closes at the right side with a plastic side 
>>>>>> release
>>>>>> buckle of the sort that youā?Td use to close a backpack. This buckle 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> quite large and sturdy.
>>>>
>>>>>> The handle, as I said, is an improvement over the previous 
>>>>>> generation.
>>>>>> The new handles are made of a flat metal stock wrapped in nylon. It 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> removable, attaching to the harness with plastic side release 
>>>>>> buckles.
>>>>>> Donā?Tt let that put you off, however; Iā?Tve used a harness with
>>>>>> similar
>>>>>> handle attachments for a while with no problems. The buckles are 
>>>>>> sturdy
>>>>>> and Iā?Tve never had one disconnect during travel. Julie has also put 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> comfortable rubber handgrip on the handle, with finger grooves in the
>>>>>> front. Itā?Ts a very comfortable grip, even for a dog with quite a 
>>>>>> bit
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> pull. I'd maybe prefer a bit more of a rounded grip, maybe a little
>>>>>> padding under the grip, but even with that, I like it. Youā?Tll have
>>>>>> absolutely no trouble following your dog due to ā?osloppyā?¯ handle
>>>>>> connections, because the connections are definitely not sloppy and
>>>>>> donā?Tt have excessive play in them at all. Highly recommended,
>>>>>> especially for the price.
>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, if youā?Tre owner training, or if you just need or want
>>>>>> alternative equipment, give these a look. You wonā?Tt be sorry.
>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>>>>>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>>>>>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>>>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>>>>>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>>>>>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NAGDU mailing list
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>>>> -- 
>>>> --Dar
>>>> skype: dmgina23
>>>> FB: dmgina
>>>> www.twitter.com/dmgina
>>>> every saint has a past
>>>> every sinner has a future
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