[NAGDU] Apprentice Instructor

Thu Aug 10 12:09:28 UTC 2017

*Hello Julie, Rox, and Meghan if you're on this list too.
I have to admit that when I originally approached Leader Dogs about 
apprenticing, that I hadn't completely flushed out the "Kool-Aid" from 
my system. *grin*
It looks like I hadn't thought far enough outside of the "box".
Thank you for this excellent food for thought.

Wayne And Harley D

*On 8/7/2017 8:16 AM, Julie Johnson via NAGDU wrote:
> I have worked with two other people who were new to guide dogs.   Rox 
> has also. Wayne has trained dogs for others.  Meghan trained my Jetta, 
> then brought her here and helped me with getting started. I'm sure 
> there are other blind people  that could be added to this list. In 
> addition there are loads of owner trainers and blind people teaching 
> cane travel.   It's obvious that all the skills and techniques exist.  
> All we need is to put them all together in one place.
>
> Training a guide dog is not rocket science.  It requires some 
> knowledge, a ton of hard work and a decent amount of perseverance, but 
> it is not exceptionally mentally complicated.  There is too often this 
> mystique around guide dog training.  It's not any more magical than 
> airplanes.  As long as we keep thinking its some kind of unexplained 
> magic, we are never going to make any progress on entering the field 
> of guide dog training.
>
> I used to think brain surgery was kind of magical.  Then I met a 
> couple of brain surgeons.  They are just regular people with a lot of 
> education.  Also they do not know everything, which was actually 
> comforting to me.  It confirmed to me it's science, not magic.
>
> Likewise, I've met and talked to a fair number of guide dog trainers 
> over the years.  They are all just people.  They are knowledgeable, 
> passionate about their work, and interested in learning new things.  
> However they do not have any magical powers.  Sometimes they are wrong 
> or they change their minds about best practices in training.    They 
> do not have all the answers for everything.  Again, it's reassuring to 
> me that guide dog trainers approach problem situations the same way 
> that I do. Address the most likely or obvious thing first and 
> systematically try new solutions until you find something that works.
>
> If you missed the NAGDU trainer talk segment, go and listen to the 
> recording.  Excellent, excellent stuff.  The question from the 
> audience about what to do for a dog who relieves on route was 
> especially interesting to me.  The trainer suggestions were exactly 
> what I've heard here and elsewhere from other handlers. We have the 
> ability to problem solve and come up with solutions the same as 
> professional trainers.
>
> Again a blind person is not going to be able to pop into the job of a 
> guide dog instructor exactly as it is now and be successful. There 
> will definitely need to be some accommodations and alternative 
> techniques used. It's likely that readers and drivers will be needed.  
> Some sort of two way headsets could be used to keep in constant 
> communication.  A bell or other sound device could be temporarily 
> added to the dogs harness to make it easier for the blind instructor 
> to be aware of the dogs location. These are all just details though.  
> It's no different than any other job a blind person might do.
>
> When starting every job I've ever had, including running my own 
> business, I've not had all the answers when I started.  I've had to 
> label things in Braille, hire drivers, figure out how to focus a 
> projector, monitor children in a group, teach someone how to operate a 
> kitchen appliance I'd never used before, navigate large buildings in 
> other cities, use a hot cutter and so so many other things.  I think a 
> new blindness challenge comes up pretty much daily.  Today's is taking 
> pictures.   It's likely I'll take a lot of them before I get a system 
> figured out and that's okay.
>
> There are really only two obstacles to having blind people as guide 
> dog instructors...first to the best of my knowledge and beliefs, none 
> of the current programs are truly dedicated to making this happen.  It 
> will take some time to figure out what works and what doesn't.  The 
> blind person is going to have to have the opportunity to try, mess up 
> and try again until the right set of alternative approaches are worked 
> out.  That is the nature of trying new things.  It rarely, if ever, 
> all comes together perfectly on the first try.
>
> The second issue is blind people.  The sad truth is that there are a 
> lot of blind people who believe that cane travel instructors have to 
> be sighted to be safe, effective or legitimate.  Its clear that this 
> same belief holds true at even the thought of a blind person as a 
> guide dog instructor.  How can we expect any guide dog school to hire 
> a blind instructor if the blind students are going to refuse to be 
> trained by that person?   It is our beliefs that hold us back.
>
> Fear is an interesting and powerful thing.   It is the one thing that 
> can rule everything else.  Looking back I think the most important 
> thing I got out of my sleepshade blindness training was the ability to 
> feel fear and to do the thing anyway.  I've had discussions with 
> sighted people who were very honest and sincere when they said to me 
> that if they went blind they would be too afraid to do the things I 
> do.  I can understand that.  If you don't understand the mechanics 
> behind how blind people do things it probably does look scary, but 
> once I explain they start to think about how it might be done, leaving 
> the fear response behind.  That is what I hope for all blind people, 
> that we can begin to think rationally about how a thing might be done 
> instead of giving into the knee jerk response of fear.
>
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
> <https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046> 
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Buddy Brannan via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 4:23 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Buddy Brannan
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Apprentice Instructor
>
> I call bullsh*t. They said the same thing about blind cane travel 
> instructors, and we have loads of those now. Not to mention a number 
> of owner trainers, and at least one blind person who has trained and 
> placed guides for others.
>
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Mobile (preferred): (814) 431-0962
> Phone: (814) 860-3194
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>
>
>
>> On Aug 6, 2017, at 3:59 PM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> I do think the schools should consider hiring blind people as training
>> assistants.  However, a blind person could not be a full instructor.  
>> The
>> instructors have to be able to see what is happening with the 
>> students and
>> dogs.  It would be a question of safety.
>>
>> Sandra
>> -----Original Message----- From: Buddy Brannan via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2017 3:32 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Buddy Brannan
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Apprentice Instructor
>>
>> GDB had a pilot program that they set up to fail once. Otherwise, 
>> none of
>> the schools would even think about hiring a blind apprentice...they 
>> might
>> then have to think about graduating one to a full instructor,
>> and...well...we just can't have that.
>>
>> -- 
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Mobile (preferred): (814) 431-0962
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194
>> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 6, 2017, at 1:27 PM, Haylie Gallacher via NAGDU 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone know if any of the guide dog schools have ever hired a a blind
>>> apprentice instructor?  If so, which ones?  I am thinking about being a
>>> guide dog instructor is why I am asking.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Haylieof
>>>
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>>
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>
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