[NAGDU] Obedience and "down"

Sun Aug 20 20:19:07 UTC 2017

How old   is he? 

Small children can be a really tough distraction. They are unpredictable and for a really driven dog, that’s rarely good. 
> On Aug 20, 2017, at 4:14 PM, Andy B. via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> He is a black lab from Seeing Eye. It is my first guide and he does excellent work. The only major obedience problems is down, especially during social events with children under the age of 5 or multiple guides laying under the same table.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine Stanley via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 4:03 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jenine Stanley <jeninems at icloud.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Obedience and "down"
> 
> My Golden  is familiar with the clicker, treat/reward based training and traditional training. He gets bored and tunes out after 2 reps. He also does that latent processing thing where it looks and feels as if he’s not doing anything until Voila! he is. 
> 
> I thought more was better. No. I thought higher reward values were better. No, not necessarily, unless he wants to train me to give him treats. 
> 
> finally I had to learn to recognize when he was taking initiative as opposed to when he was speeding up to eat a flower or some other transgression. Going with an rewarding the initiative was key. Also, as Julie said, do the obedience when it makes sense to the dog. Some dogs, like mine, can sense a setup immediately and rebel or just tune out. I’m pretty sure my guy would turn me in to the school for another human if I even considered 20 reps of anything. 
> 
> This was hard to get used to for me as my past dog lived to please, totally grooved on fist targeting and was generally immediately enthusiastic about whatever I asked him to do, unless of course I was doing something stupid because I hadn’t been paying attention to him. This current dog looked an felt sloppy and as if he wasn’t really into guiding. It’s just the opposite though. He loves new and complex environments and sometimes that’s not my world but I can make things more fun for him with a little planning of routes and such. 
> 
> I think we all would love to hear more about this dog. what breed, school or owner trained, how old and how is the guide work? Is this your first dog or first working service dog, big difference btw imho. 
>> On Aug 20, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Andy B. via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> He doesn't do well with clicker training. Even with treats, he refused 
>> to hit the target 20 times. The only way we could get him to hit the 
>> target is to let him dilly-dally around until he figured out treats 
>> wouldn't come if he never hit the target. Still, a 5 minute session 
>> just to see if he will hit the target at the target takes too long. 
>> So, we never made it to the hand touch you mentioned. I will try 
>> shorter sessions in random places though.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy 
>> Carcione via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 12:37 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Obedience and "down"
>> 
>> I don't do nearly as much in one OB session as you do.  If he does 
>> well with one or two repeats, fine, move on.  Since he knows it as 
>> well as I do, I usually do 1 come, 1 rest, 2 sit-down-sits, and, hey! We're done!
>> If you feel all the repeats are important, maybe do shorter sessions 
>> more often?  I also try to change up the routine--one time do downs 
>> first, next time do rest first ... and I try to change up where we do 
>> it, outside the office, in the office, at the bus stop ...
>> 
>> If you've worked on the hand-touch command at all, as part of clicker 
>> training, you could try using that to get him to lie in the position 
>> you want.
>> Tracy
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B. via 
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 11:38 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Andy B.
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Obedience and "down"
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I am having a slight issue with the down command, especially in daily 
>> obedience. It appears that he gets bored with the idea, then does 
>> nothing to respond. Usually a light to moderate leash correction fixes 
>> the problem for that instance of the down command. However, subsequent 
>> ones require harsher corrections, or giving him a break for a while. 
>> We can usually get through
>> 4-5 exercise routines before he gets bored with it. Here is what I 
>> normally do each day:
>> 
>> Heal-come-set 3 times, sit-down 4 times, 3 sets of rest, sit-down 4 
>> more times (he gets bored here), heal-come-sit 3 times, then sit-down 
>> a few more times, and wrap it up with a few rests or sit-downs. What 
>> is the best way to get him interested in doing this again? A high 
>> collar correction was recommended for every instance of disobedience, 
>> and for extra measure of discipline, give him a high collar even if he 
>> does what is required, but my mind still thinks it is a little harsh. 
>> How do you get over this problem? He also falls out of perfect form. 
>> Is there a way I can enforce good obedience form? For example, when he 
>> sits, most of the time he sits facing me and slightly to the left of 
>> my left shoulder. When he lays down, he sticks his butt out so his 
>> head is pointed at me, and lays on his left side so he can look at me. 
>> He should be on the left at all times, not in these weird positions.
>> 
>> 
>> 
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