[NAGDU] Obedience and "down"

Mon Aug 21 11:21:17 UTC 2017

Yep, sometimes with these type dogs doing what seems counter is what works. One of mine appeared to need the typical leash correction given back in the day. It wasn’t working to curb his enthusiasm about other dogs. What worked was to really give him as much leash as I could and let him correct himself. Once he did that a few times, with no harm to me or the other dog, who was usually across a street, I could go to standard corrections. Right now I’m guessing your boy is like a hyper kid. the more you constrain him, the worse it gets. You’ll find that sweet spot. 
> On Aug 20, 2017, at 9:12 PM, Andy B. via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Stepping on the leash makes him more unwilling to stay in a single place. I
> am finding that giving him freedom is partly the key to success.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Charlene Ota via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:37 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Charlene Ota <caota4 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Obedience and "down"
> 
> Sounds like maybe it's that old thing new dog teams sometimes have to go
> through, too, about showing who's calling the shots. Once you get him where
> you want him, you might put your foot on his leash up hear the collar so he
> can't get up again and just firmly remind him to stay when he starts to
> think about getting up. Irish doesn't really like to lay under a chair at
> the table, it's just not his preferred place to lay, but if I put him there
> and praise him a bit and show him that's where I want him, he'll do it,
> especially in crowded busy places.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B. via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 3:32 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Obedience and "down"
> 
> Hi,
> 
> As stated in another message, he is a black lab trained by The Seeing Eye.
> For the record, he is 22 months old. When we came home, TSE told me to keep
> working on obedience training with him, especially with the down command. In
> those obedience sets, he needed to practice keeping out of the way and
> staying close to my side. He always has a tendency to sit or lay behind and
> to the left or right of the chair at the table when it should be under the
> table at my feet or at the left or right side.
> The entire point is to have him lay down under the table or on the immediate
> left/right of my chair and rest, to minimize the amount of times he stands
> up at dinner, and keep him out of the way. I never had to high collar him in
> private. At most, it takes a light correction before we are on track again.
> Most commands I can find a purpose for. However, down is not one I have a
> reason for him to use at home on a regular basis.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie Johnson via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 2:39 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie Johnson <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Obedience and "down"
> 
> Is this dog a GSD, or perhaps a Doberman?  I'm  guessing by what you are
> sharing that he is a high drive dog, with a lot of initiative, and self 
> confidence    If I'm write, then I think the problem is that he needs a 
> reason for your commands to make sense.  Sit for the sake of sitting
> probably doesn't make any sense to him, no need for it, so why do it.
> 
> My Doberman is like this.  I don't do long sessions of rote obedience.  It
> works better if I work it into our daily routine...I'm making the bed, she's
> practicing down stay.  I'm cooking, she's in the dining room in a stay.  I'm
> brushing the other dog, she's sitting...or whatever.  If I give her
> obedience commands mixed in with our daily routine, then she's agreeable. 
> If I tried to do one long marathon session, she'd mutiny about 3 minutes in.
> 
> I look at it like this, I can work against her nature or I can work with
> her.  She's a very smart dog.  She doesn't need all the practice at
> obedience to be good at it.  Obedience practice is purely for her to keep in
> the habit of listening to me.  If she listens and respects me, then I'm good
> with it.  If that means obedience gets sprinkled in throughout the day for
> her to feel like she's doing something useful and for it to make sense to
> her, then that's okay with me.
> 
> Also increasing the intensity of corrections probably isn't going to help. 
> I think upping the corrections is likely to lead down the path of physical
> power struggle.  That is not a good place to be.  You don't want the sole
> reason for your dog to behave to land squarely on how hard you can correct
> if he doesn't comply.  The first time you need him to do something when he's
> off leash and he realizes you can't correct, you have lost.  His compliance
> of your commands needs to be reliant on his respect and admiration of you. 
> Corrections may be a part of that, but it's a mistake to rely solely on
> them.  It's also a mistake to rely solely on food.  They are both extremes.
> 
> What is your reasoning behind wanting a perfectly aligned sit or down? 
> There are ways to improve these behaviors, but for me I only have so much
> time and energy in a day.  I put my effort where it is going to have the
> highest pay off.  Personally I don't care if my dogs lie in the library lion
> position, on their side, or whatever else way they choose. What I want is
> for them to be out of the way, in the same place, until I release them.
> 
> So maybe the long and short of all of this is to ask yourself why am I doing
> 
> obedience with my dog?   Then  is what I'm doing getting the results I want?
> 
> And finally is there a better way of getting what I want, while working with
> my dog instead of against him?
> 
> Julie
> On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy B. via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:37 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Andy B.
> Subject: [NAGDU] Obedience and "down"
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> I am having a slight issue with the down command, especially in daily
> obedience. It appears that he gets bored with the idea, then does nothing to
> respond. Usually a light to moderate leash correction fixes the problem for
> that instance of the down command. However, subsequent ones require harsher
> corrections, or giving him a break for a while. We can usually get through
> 4-5 exercise routines before he gets bored with it. Here is what I normally
> do each day:
> 
> Heal-come-set 3 times, sit-down 4 times, 3 sets of rest, sit-down 4 more
> times (he gets bored here), heal-come-sit 3 times, then sit-down a few more
> times, and wrap it up with a few rests or sit-downs. What is the best way to
> get him interested in doing this again? A high collar correction was
> recommended for every instance of disobedience, and for extra measure of
> discipline, give him a high collar even if he does what is required, but my
> mind still thinks it is a little harsh. How do you get over this problem? He
> also falls out of perfect form. Is there a way I can enforce good obedience
> form? For example, when he sits, most of the time he sits facing me and
> slightly to the left of my left shoulder. When he lays down, he sticks his
> butt out so his head is pointed at me, and lays on his left side so he can
> look at me. He should be on the left at all times, not in these weird
> positions.
> 
> 
> 
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