[NAGDU] Introducing a New Member

Fri Dec 1 18:04:26 UTC 2017

Hi, Marion Last week we went away for thanksgiving to my sister's home and
she preferred that we not bring our dogs because she already has three dogs
and two cats and we were expecting at least twenty people at all times so we
complied with her request. I'm not sorry that we did because of everything
going on at that time and our dogs had a great time where they were boarded.
Thay were safe and happy and that is very important to us 

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU President
via NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 1:48 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: NAGDU President <blind411 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Introducing a New Member

Bree,

	First of all, Tami, Mike, and all the others have given you some
great information and, I hope, a bit more perspective. My name is Marion and
I am the president of this fine group. I am so happy to see you here on this
list and, while I am at it, welcome to all the other new listers I have not
had the chance to welcome.

When I got my first dog in 1987, I had pretty good acuity, probably around
20/40 or so, though I'm not really sure. I know I could read news print
which is about 10 pt. but I probably got a little ink on my nose! (smile)
Because I have retinitis pigmentosa, my field of vision was about 15
degrees, if that. I was virtually totally blind at night and things like
steps and curbs were not visually detectable by me. I started using a white
cane in the late 70s but always had an interest in a guide dog. During my
progression of rP, I was a trainer of police dogs and had my own dual
personality (that's what we called them) German Shepherd. I always had dogs
growing up, so getting a guide dog was a natural thing for me to do.

	Rather than repeating what Mike, Tami, and the others have said, the
only thing I will reiterate is that it is your choice and your decision
should be based upon what you believe is good and right for you - not the
irrational, silly things others will tell you. Also, if you do decide to get
a guide dog, do not let your cane travel skills go by the wayside. There
will be plenty of opportunity to use them and you want to be completely
independent at all times, even when your pup is ill, the weather is bad and
you don't want to take it out in that awful stuff, you are going to a
concert, or visiting family and friends who don't want the dog in their
house. (BTW, on this last part, please don't take the attitude of, "If they
don't want my dog, they don't want me!" Just as working a guide dog is your
choice, whether or not to have a dog in their house is theirs.) In addition,
my daughter has a dog that she rescued from the fight ring. He is not a very
sociable animal with other dogs for obvious reasons. My wife (who is also a
guide dog user) and I would never dream of taking our dogs to our daughter's
house! My daughter wants us and loves our dogs; that is why she would prefer
we leave them home and so do we!

	Again, let me welcome you to our list and hope you find answers and
inspiration here as you live the life you want!

Fraternally yours,
Marion

Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National Federation of
the Blind
(813) 626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG

The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people
and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds
you back.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis via
NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:37 PM
To: Bree R. via NAGDU
Cc: Tami Jarvis
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Introducing a New Member

Bree,

Welcome. Yes, you've come to the right place. I'm Tami, working my second
owner-trained poodle guide. I have retinitis pigmentosa, so have done the
whole progressive vision loss into blindness thing. Well, not the whole
thing, since I'm still not totally blind, but I am working on it and will
get there when I get there. /lol/

Other people with extensive experience with dogs from the various training
programs will give you good information. In general, they do provide dogs to
people with partial vision loss, though that was not always the case. Now
the operating assumption is more that if you need a cane, you need a dog for
the same reasons if you choose dog over cane.

Dealing with vision loss means dealing with a lot of feelings, and everyone
does it their own way. Being in an in-between state where you don't know
where you fit in comes with additional feelings and confusions. Your
feelings are your own, and how you deal with them is for you to do.
However... It sounds like you've been dealt a heavy guilt load from
somewhere, including by the case worker who told you you should be grateful.
Wrong. Just... wrong. People in the resource fields will tell you that, and
usually what it means is that they don't want to spend money on you, so
they're hoping you'll go away and shut up. What they'll be telling the
totally blind clients is that they can't do anything anyway, so the agency
needs to spend the resources on people with some vision. So, if you feel
either guilty or grateful for reasons of your own, that's entirely normal as
part of the adjustment process. 
So is feeling angry, bitter, maybe okay, and lots of other things. But if
you can avoid letting someone else tell you what you ought to feel, then
that's a good.

As for using a guide dog when you have good cane mobility skills, it really
is a matter of choice. A dog is great with some of the areas you mention,
and I definitely prefer navigating those same sorts of difficult places with
the dog. The dog does not come with an off switch, however, so you can't
just stick in the corner out of the way when you get home. The cane does not
have off days or suddenly decide to go sniff the bushes over there while
neatly convincing you it is taking you around an obstacle. A cane also won't
see that quiet car blowing through the red light and zooming towards the
crosswalk where you are walking, nor will it knock you back and back again
so the car speeds by inches in front of you instead of right over you. And
so on. The decision for most people seems to come down to a weighing of pros
and cons and an examination of lifestyle and preferences.

There are something like 13 programs to choose from (someone will correct me
if I'm wrong on the number), so there is good availability of guide dogs.
I've also heard the bit about not taking a guide dog away from someone who
really needs one, but that's, well, bunk. First, you really need a cane, so
you really need a guide dog. Second, if you do decide on a dog and are
matched with one, then it is true that someone else who needs a guide dog
will not get that dog. That person will get a different dog. If you have
partial vision and want a guide dog, people will lay that guilt trip on you,
though, along with all the others. 
Sigh. Considering you own needs versus those of others when consuming finite
resources is laudable, but I think it is important to remember that if the
resources are made available for blind people and you are a blind person,
then they are available for you if you need them. It's usually people trying
to hoard those resources who will tell you otherwise. If you were totally
blind, the excuses would be different is all. Sigh.

Anyway, that's just my take, and you will hear many others and get lots of
information to filter through as you make your decision about what is best
for you. Do feel free to let us know how you decide, either way.

Tami

On 11/29/2017 12:41 AM, Bree R. via NAGDU wrote:
> Thank you for letting me join your list. I don't know if this is a 
> list
that can help me. Or if I belong here. I think I want to at least try to get
some more info about guide dogs before I decide whether or not a guide dog
would help me with travel.
> 
> I finished mobility training through ACBVI before I moved last spring. 
> I
met a few people who had guide dogs and I wondered if they were even an
option for me. I know I should talk to the guide dog schools to ask but it's
intimidating since what if they just say no & I'm wasting their time.
> 
> I don't think or don't know if I should even try because I have done
mobility training and it helped a lot. I don't think I have to have a guide
dog to be safe. Or take someone's dog who needs them more than me. Mostly
because my better eye I can see out of is corrected or can be to 20/70. I
think that I would not think of a guide dog if I could see enough to not use
a cane & if the people I met didn't make me wonder.
> 
> 
> ACBVI said it is low vision but not blindness & I know guide dogs are 
> for
people who are really are blind. I just can't use what I can see very well I
guess is how to explain it because what I see doesn't match what is there. I
don't have RP but it's similar they said except there's just rod and cone
dystrophy and mostly it's a male condition so they didn't know what was
going on for a long time. I wear glasses over contract lenses which is how I
can see 20/70 in one eye and it's like 20/200 on the other. My glasses are
made with crystals and they're supposed to help them work together but it
doesn't always work and sometimes makes it worse. I am night blind since I
was a kid and have amblyopia where my right eye won't look straight and also
photophobia. I think if I could see 20/70 really like 20/70 is then I
wouldn't need a cane even it's just it is not the same trying to walk or get
around as it is to read letters on a chart.
> 
> The counselor at the last session I had with Voc Rehab told me my 
> vision
is really not bad at all and to be grateful and I am. I think that is why I
don't want to call and talk to guide dog schools because I feel guilty.
> 
> I wanted to ask someone with a guide dog though if I really couldn't 
> try
to have a guide dog. I remembered the name of the NFB from something a while
ago so I found a google result for your list when I searched NFB and guide
dogs.
> 
> I hope it's ok for me to ask this here. I mean I know Im glad I can 
> still
see and all and I hope I don't keep having worse vision but I'm 27 and it
has been getting worse for many years now. I feel bad though if I sound
ungrateful. I'm really not. I just wonder if it is true that I cannot try to
get a guide dog and that they are for only totally blind people. I sort of
wish I could try to have one now because it seems like it would be much
better to travel and to not have to run into something to know its there
with my cane and to move around things a dog would see especially in the
winter when it's hard to tell where curbs and roads are and the snow makes
it hard to find landmarks.
> 
> I hope it isnt breaking any rules for me to post here and thank you. I 
> am
nervous as you maybe can tell.
> 
> Bree
> 
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