[NAGDU] A dog? a cane? which will it be

Fri Feb 10 18:47:12 UTC 2017

Hi Dan et. Al.,

Somehow I missed when the subject line got modified to its current
iteration, but I think, as others have indicated, that it brings up a false
dichotomy.  Why are we asking cane *or* dog?  I think the answer is,
whichever is more appropriate to specific circumstances; there is no one
right answer for all situations.

One very cogent example for me, as someone who has transitioned from low
vision to no vision a couple years ago has been the realization of how
destination-oriented dogs are.  I've also recently started a new job which
sometimes involves travel, and so I need to orient myself to new
environments such as hotels and airports.  Using a cane to shoreline at a
hotel to learn where your room is located can't easily be replicated with a
dog.  The dog doesn't typically indicate every room as you walk by - you
actually miss a lot of information a cane would give you, because the dog is
trained to ignore or simply walk you around things.  However, once you've
explored, then go back to working your dog, you know exactly where you're
going, and can give your dog confident and exact instruction to find the
destination, praise them up when you get them, and over all, make a very
positive patterning experience for them.

I hope this is helpful to others for understanding why both tools have their
place.  It was a surprising realization for me, when I recently went back to
a training center and freshened up my own cane and O&M skills.  But knowing
I can use both tools confidently really did amazing things for me as a blind
person.  It is just as liberating for me to know that I can sometimes leave
Igloo home, but be just as independent out in public with my cane.

All the best,
Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via
NAGDU
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 12:18 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] A dog? a cane? which will it be

Hmmm and how is your cane supposed to help you find eanything, Raul, unless
frankly you have a lot of vision in which case I understand, after all, use
what you got--smile

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos
via NAGDU
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 12:50 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Raul A. Gallegos
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] A dog? a cane? which will it be

This is well put. Another thing I would like to add is that I do not blame
dog handlers for some of their believes about not having to use or not
needing to use canes. A lot of this was also pushed by many schools many
years ago. For example, schools might often say, don't use your cane since
you now have a dog, you don't need it. So the handler would feel this. If
the handler was not a good cane traveler, perhaps a handler would feel that
the Dog would liberate them. I don't know how other schools approach this
now, but the field rep from guiding eyes is definitely a pro cane person.
During the home training that I have been receiving, at one point he
mentioned, you are at an office supply store, you're looking for something
you need specifically. Why don't you take your cane out and find what you
need since the dog is taking you around everything? It was such an obvious
thing that I mentally smack myself in the head. He mentioned specifically
that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a dog users are having a cane
with him or her just in case it is needed for finding certain things or
quick browsing of your surroundings. Not only does it add another tool to
the travel box, but it also takes the stress off the dog. This is the kind
of approach that I absolutely agree with, so it has made my home training
that much more positive. So what I am doing now to help carry my cane
everywhere I go, is strap my NFB collapsible cane inside the carrying pouch
that it came with, onto one of the arms of the harness using to tie cords.
This makes it possible for me to take the cane out while leaving the pouch
attached to the harness, then I can use it if I need it, then when I am done
I simply collapse the cane and put it back. It does not add extra weight or
cause an in balance with the dog.

--
Raul A. Gallegos
Assistive Technology Trainer - RGA Tech Solutions

Mobile: 832.554.7285
Work: 832.639.4477
Personal Email: raul at raulgallegos.com
Work Email: training at rgats.com

"Any teacher that can be replaced with a computer, deserves to be." - David
Thornburg

> On Feb 10, 2017, at 9:13 AM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> InIn my first class when I got a edog, there was a person who had
absolutely no travel skills. She had no idea how to tell when the lights
were green ... nothing. We spent part of one of our travel routes working
with her on this, and her trainer worked with her in the halls on skills.
They were skills that had should have already been acquired. I saw another
person like that. It is stressful for people to have absolutely no mobility
skills. I miss using my dog, and I'm not sure my mobility skills are what
they used to be. I think it is too bad when a mobility instructor tells
someone they would be a good candidate for a dog. I think almost anyone
would if they want one and are willing to make the commitment, but I think
some of the people who are told this are people who, with a little more
practice and commitment, will be crossing streets straighter. There are
reasons why they might not though. I feel that mainly the final decision is
someone's choice. The cane for the NFB has always been the symbol of
independence and that continues, but that doesn't mean that the Federation
believes people should not have dogs. I think that is a theory that needs to
be put to rest.
> 
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
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