[NAGDU] Service dog license

Sun Feb 12 17:00:34 UTC 2017

*Hello Ms. Jameyanne,
You could make up your own. I know of a few Service Dog Owners that 
create them as a side business as well. Some just have the ADA, others 
customize the order to include state access provisions too.
I won't mention them on list as I would rather not run afoul of the "No 
Advertising" rule.

CAVEAT: Your Mileage May Vary

Wayne And Harley

*On 2/12/2017 10:22 AM, Jameyanne Fuller via NAGDU wrote:
> Wow so many responses! You all have really persuaded me, particularly
> Buddy's letter. I find showing the ID is easier and quicker than getting
> into a long drawn-out discussion about it. But I have to say I'm not asked
> for it that often, and usually if someone asks, I just say Mopsy is a
> service dog, and people leave it at that. The most I showed proof of Mopsy
> being a service dog was in Italy, where I was challenged around every
> corner, and it was doubly hard to be credible when I clearly wasn't Italian
> (but I don't know if Italian law prohibits asking like in America). But I
> don't want to hurt other service dog teams because something is easier for
> me.
> I'm curious, is there a place where we can get those business-card sized
> statements of the ADA? That seems like a really good idea.
> Thank you all for all the information and for a great discussion. I'm glad
> to learn so much more about this issue so that I'm no longer conflicted at
> all. I'm taking the side of no license law.
> Jameyanne
> P.S. Mopsy does not have siblings named Flopsy or Cottontale, but I do call
> her Mopsy Flopsy when she's being silly and flopping all over the place.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of lkeeler--- via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 9:06 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: lkeeler at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>
> I've only did it twice. Once, I told them I didn't have to do it but,. And,
> actually, several times for the grins of it. It can get you out of a fix
> quick!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cindy Ray via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 8:32 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>
> In your message you indicated that you have to choose your battles. How do
> you do that? I agree you do, but is it really so much easier to show the
> school's ID? I can't say I have never done it, but each time we do it we
> legitimize people's asking for those IDs. For me, that makes it less
> effective to have the law on our side.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jameyanne Fuller
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 12:23 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jameyanne Fuller <jameyanne at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>
> Hello all from snowy Cambridge,
> I haven't posted on here much because law school has eaten my life (Mopsy is
> loving Harvard, though), but I have been lurking. I've always been curious
> about a service dog license law, so I'm chiming in with some thoughts.
> The ADA limits the sorts of questions you can ask about a person's
> disability, including why you have a service dog, and that's what a service
> dog license would violate. I may have missed something else more specific
> though. It's been a while since I read the ADA.
> I've always been personally conflicted about a service dog license law. I
> feel like it would discourage fakers, and the number of times I'm told by
> business people that people have tried to fake bringing service dogs into
> places and then the dogs have reeked havoc is really upsetting, because it
> means the business person automatically doesn't trust me or Mopsy.
> Setting aside the issues with the ADA for the moment, I don't think it's the
> sort of law that could be implemented in one state because it would limit
> people's freedom of movement (we don't have to get a license to go on
> vacation).
> And there's also the issue Daryl raised about being asked to show the
> license multiple times a day, which is really upsetting.
> There may be a way to implement something that would limit fakers and
> preserve our rights at the same time. Unfortunately I've been doing legal
> research all day on another issue and my brain is kind of fried so I can't
> come up with a creative solution at the moment, but I'll continue to think
> about it.
> I do have to say that I carry Mopsy's seeing eye ID with me everywhere, and
> I have no problem showing it to someone who asks for proof that Mopsy is a
> service dog. I know I don't have to do this, and I've even had people tell
> me that by showing Mopsy's ID I'm hurting people with service dogs who don't
> have IDs. But it's a whole lot simpler to just show the ID than fighting
> back when I have the ID. I can't fight on every issue. I also inform them
> that while I have an ID, not all schools give IDs, and under the ADA they
> can't legally ask for an ID in the first place. I recognize that it may not
> always be effective to give them the proof they ask for while at the same
> time telling them they can't legally ask for it, but I've found people tend
> to be much more sensitive to this after I have shown them the ID and
> legitimized myself. They're much more willing to talk and learn.
> So I guess my point is, it's complicated. I understand and agree with both
> the reasons for such a law and the reasons against it. I agree that without
> safeguards, a service dog license law would be a violation of our rights.
> But at the same time, something has to be done about the fakers.
> Stay warm!
> Jameyanne and Mopsy
> jameyanne at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Steeves via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 12:54 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Gary Steeves <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>
> Hi Daryl what province is it in
>
> On February 11, 2017 9:09:40 PM PST, Daryl via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> I live in Canada, and one of our provinces has enacted such a law. It's
>> honestly been incredibly frustrating. People who live there have told
>> me that just by going about their business with their service dogs,
>> they are asked for identifying documents several times a day. One has
>> even told me that she is reluctant to leave her house with her service
>> dog because she gets asked for paperwork so frequently. They have not
>> addressed the issue of owner trainers, or visitors to the province. For
>> example, if I travel there on a family emergency, I can pre apply for a
>> temporary ID card. This greatly restrict the movement of Canadian
>> citizens, which is against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If you
>> are getting asked for ID when you buy alcohol or verify your ID when
>> writing checks, it's because everybody gets ask for that information.
>> You personally are not targeted.
>>
>> On February 11, 2017 10:02:11 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Dar,
>>> Apologies, I forgot about those groups, didn't intend to.
>>>
>>> I have to show ID when I go to get alcohol though...  and for things
>>> like writing checks and verifying my identity at the airport...
>>>
>>> Wouldn't something like this help with 'fakers'?
>>>
>>> I wonder if there could even be some sort of accreditation process
>> that
>>> you could go through if you owner  trained or had somebody help you
>>> train your dog to a group like IAADP?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Feb 11, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Daryl via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I can't speak for anybody else, but as for myself I have big
>> problems
>>> with such an idea. It makes people with disabilities who use service
>>> dogs targets for anybody who wants to see identifiable information.
>>> Yes, to drive a car you need a license. But you are only requested for
>>> that license if you are driving erratically. Also, if a person chooses
>>> to owner train their dog, or if they're disability makes owner
>> training
>>> the only viable option, they are at a distinct disadvantage.
>>>>> On February 11, 2017 9:46:58 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hey guys,
>>>>> So I'm going to make you mad at me but I don't
>>> understandsomething...
>>>>> If you have to get a license to drive why not one for a guide dog.
>>>>> I know that people who were glasses are supposed to have their
>>> picture
>>>>> taken with her glasses on and I guess I wonder why he could not be
>>>>> something like that but for us with our dog?
>>>>>
>>>>> I know figuring out how to come up with some sort of database of
>>>>> accredited schools and then how to figure out how to make sure
>> these
>>>>> places are accredited would be a process but I guess I kind of
>>> wonder
>>>>> if having it on something that already exists and is already
>>> official
>>>>> wouldn't that make it easier?
>>>>>
>>>>> I mean, if I have to go get a new ID when I move wouldn't it make
>>> sense
>>>>> to just go get a new ID with your picture of you and your partner
>> in
>>> it
>>>>> that way?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not trying to ignite a fire storm or anything I just don't
>>> really
>>>>> understand why this is such a big deal. I understand the need for
>>>>> privacy but I'm not even really saying that you have to say on
>> there
>>>>> why you have the dog I guess I really just kind of would think that
>>> if
>>>>> they could get accredited schools in a database and then the DMV
>>> could
>>>>> choose the school you went to given on some sort  of letter or
>>>>> something, why is that bad???
>>>>>
>>>>> Just trying to understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> vandyvanderbrink at outlook.com
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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