[NAGDU] Service dog license

Sun Feb 12 23:11:51 UTC 2017

If you Download the NAGDU App on either the Iphone or Android it will 
have the ADA and your own states Service Animals laws for reference.

Janice

On 2/12/2017 12:00 PM, Wayne & Harley via NAGDU wrote:
> *Hello Ms. Jameyanne,
> You could make up your own. I know of a few Service Dog Owners that 
> create them as a side business as well. Some just have the ADA, others 
> customize the order to include state access provisions too.
> I won't mention them on list as I would rather not run afoul of the 
> "No Advertising" rule.
>
> CAVEAT: Your Mileage May Vary
>
> Wayne And Harley
>
> *On 2/12/2017 10:22 AM, Jameyanne Fuller via NAGDU wrote:
>> Wow so many responses! You all have really persuaded me, particularly
>> Buddy's letter. I find showing the ID is easier and quicker than getting
>> into a long drawn-out discussion about it. But I have to say I'm not 
>> asked
>> for it that often, and usually if someone asks, I just say Mopsy is a
>> service dog, and people leave it at that. The most I showed proof of 
>> Mopsy
>> being a service dog was in Italy, where I was challenged around every
>> corner, and it was doubly hard to be credible when I clearly wasn't 
>> Italian
>> (but I don't know if Italian law prohibits asking like in America). 
>> But I
>> don't want to hurt other service dog teams because something is 
>> easier for
>> me.
>> I'm curious, is there a place where we can get those business-card sized
>> statements of the ADA? That seems like a really good idea.
>> Thank you all for all the information and for a great discussion. I'm 
>> glad
>> to learn so much more about this issue so that I'm no longer 
>> conflicted at
>> all. I'm taking the side of no license law.
>> Jameyanne
>> P.S. Mopsy does not have siblings named Flopsy or Cottontale, but I 
>> do call
>> her Mopsy Flopsy when she's being silly and flopping all over the place.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of lkeeler--- 
>> via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 9:06 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: lkeeler at comcast.net
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>>
>> I've only did it twice. Once, I told them I didn't have to do it 
>> but,. And,
>> actually, several times for the grins of it. It can get you out of a fix
>> quick!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cindy Ray via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 8:32 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Cindy Ray
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>>
>> In your message you indicated that you have to choose your battles. 
>> How do
>> you do that? I agree you do, but is it really so much easier to show the
>> school's ID? I can't say I have never done it, but each time we do it we
>> legitimize people's asking for those IDs. For me, that makes it less
>> effective to have the law on our side.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jameyanne 
>> Fuller
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 12:23 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Jameyanne Fuller <jameyanne at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>>
>> Hello all from snowy Cambridge,
>> I haven't posted on here much because law school has eaten my life 
>> (Mopsy is
>> loving Harvard, though), but I have been lurking. I've always been 
>> curious
>> about a service dog license law, so I'm chiming in with some thoughts.
>> The ADA limits the sorts of questions you can ask about a person's
>> disability, including why you have a service dog, and that's what a 
>> service
>> dog license would violate. I may have missed something else more 
>> specific
>> though. It's been a while since I read the ADA.
>> I've always been personally conflicted about a service dog license 
>> law. I
>> feel like it would discourage fakers, and the number of times I'm 
>> told by
>> business people that people have tried to fake bringing service dogs 
>> into
>> places and then the dogs have reeked havoc is really upsetting, 
>> because it
>> means the business person automatically doesn't trust me or Mopsy.
>> Setting aside the issues with the ADA for the moment, I don't think 
>> it's the
>> sort of law that could be implemented in one state because it would 
>> limit
>> people's freedom of movement (we don't have to get a license to go on
>> vacation).
>> And there's also the issue Daryl raised about being asked to show the
>> license multiple times a day, which is really upsetting.
>> There may be a way to implement something that would limit fakers and
>> preserve our rights at the same time. Unfortunately I've been doing 
>> legal
>> research all day on another issue and my brain is kind of fried so I 
>> can't
>> come up with a creative solution at the moment, but I'll continue to 
>> think
>> about it.
>> I do have to say that I carry Mopsy's seeing eye ID with me 
>> everywhere, and
>> I have no problem showing it to someone who asks for proof that Mopsy 
>> is a
>> service dog. I know I don't have to do this, and I've even had people 
>> tell
>> me that by showing Mopsy's ID I'm hurting people with service dogs 
>> who don't
>> have IDs. But it's a whole lot simpler to just show the ID than fighting
>> back when I have the ID. I can't fight on every issue. I also inform 
>> them
>> that while I have an ID, not all schools give IDs, and under the ADA 
>> they
>> can't legally ask for an ID in the first place. I recognize that it 
>> may not
>> always be effective to give them the proof they ask for while at the 
>> same
>> time telling them they can't legally ask for it, but I've found 
>> people tend
>> to be much more sensitive to this after I have shown them the ID and
>> legitimized myself. They're much more willing to talk and learn.
>> So I guess my point is, it's complicated. I understand and agree with 
>> both
>> the reasons for such a law and the reasons against it. I agree that 
>> without
>> safeguards, a service dog license law would be a violation of our 
>> rights.
>> But at the same time, something has to be done about the fakers.
>> Stay warm!
>> Jameyanne and Mopsy
>> jameyanne at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary 
>> Steeves via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 12:54 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Gary Steeves <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>>
>> Hi Daryl what province is it in
>>
>> On February 11, 2017 9:09:40 PM PST, Daryl via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> I live in Canada, and one of our provinces has enacted such a law. It's
>>> honestly been incredibly frustrating. People who live there have told
>>> me that just by going about their business with their service dogs,
>>> they are asked for identifying documents several times a day. One has
>>> even told me that she is reluctant to leave her house with her service
>>> dog because she gets asked for paperwork so frequently. They have not
>>> addressed the issue of owner trainers, or visitors to the province. For
>>> example, if I travel there on a family emergency, I can pre apply for a
>>> temporary ID card. This greatly restrict the movement of Canadian
>>> citizens, which is against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If you
>>> are getting asked for ID when you buy alcohol or verify your ID when
>>> writing checks, it's because everybody gets ask for that information.
>>> You personally are not targeted.
>>>
>>> On February 11, 2017 10:02:11 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Dar,
>>>> Apologies, I forgot about those groups, didn't intend to.
>>>>
>>>> I have to show ID when I go to get alcohol though...  and for things
>>>> like writing checks and verifying my identity at the airport...
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't something like this help with 'fakers'?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if there could even be some sort of accreditation process
>>> that
>>>> you could go through if you owner trained or had somebody help you
>>>> train your dog to a group like IAADP?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 11, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Daryl via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I can't speak for anybody else, but as for myself I have big
>>> problems
>>>> with such an idea. It makes people with disabilities who use service
>>>> dogs targets for anybody who wants to see identifiable information.
>>>> Yes, to drive a car you need a license. But you are only requested for
>>>> that license if you are driving erratically. Also, if a person chooses
>>>> to owner train their dog, or if they're disability makes owner
>>> training
>>>> the only viable option, they are at a distinct disadvantage.
>>>>>> On February 11, 2017 9:46:58 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hey guys,
>>>>>> So I'm going to make you mad at me but I don't
>>>> understandsomething...
>>>>>> If you have to get a license to drive why not one for a guide dog.
>>>>>> I know that people who were glasses are supposed to have their
>>>> picture
>>>>>> taken with her glasses on and I guess I wonder why he could not be
>>>>>> something like that but for us with our dog?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know figuring out how to come up with some sort of database of
>>>>>> accredited schools and then how to figure out how to make sure
>>> these
>>>>>> places are accredited would be a process but I guess I kind of
>>>> wonder
>>>>>> if having it on something that already exists and is already
>>>> official
>>>>>> wouldn't that make it easier?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I mean, if I have to go get a new ID when I move wouldn't it make
>>>> sense
>>>>>> to just go get a new ID with your picture of you and your partner
>>> in
>>>> it
>>>>>> that way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not trying to ignite a fire storm or anything I just don't
>>>> really
>>>>>> understand why this is such a big deal. I understand the need for
>>>>>> privacy but I'm not even really saying that you have to say on
>>> there
>>>>>> why you have the dog I guess I really just kind of would think that
>>>> if
>>>>>> they could get accredited schools in a database and then the DMV
>>>> could
>>>>>> choose the school you went to given on some sort  of letter or
>>>>>> something, why is that bad???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just trying to understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> vandyvanderbrink at outlook.com
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>>>> -- 
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