[NAGDU] Service dog license

Mon Feb 13 01:06:03 UTC 2017

Thank you for correcting me Wayne.  However, I had thought that I had 
heard that they were doing Beta testing on the Android NAGDU App.  I too 
am long awaiting its arrival.

I think that the more a Guide Dog Handler is knowledgeable about the 
Service Animal laws applicable in their state and in any particular 
situation the better.  Since the ADA does not always apply in every 
situation, it is important to know what is the overarching law.  For 
instance, the Air Carrier Act applies is the superordinate law governing 
Service Animals and not the ADA.  This would make a difference in 
knowing how to make a compliant if denied access.

Janice

On 2/12/2017 6:21 PM, Wayne And Harley via NAGDU wrote:
>      
> Ma'am,The last I checked, a minute ago, the app isn't available on Android. When it is available,  I will definitely be getting it.
>
> Yours, Very Sincerely And Respectfully,
>
> Wayne M. Scace
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Janice Toothman via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Date: 2/12/2017  17:11  (GMT-06:00)
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Janice Toothman <janice.toothman at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>
>
> If you Download the NAGDU App on either the Iphone or Android it will
> have the ADA and your own states Service Animals laws for reference.
>
> Janice
>
> On 2/12/2017 12:00 PM, Wayne & Harley via NAGDU wrote:
>> *Hello Ms. Jameyanne,
>> You could make up your own. I know of a few Service Dog Owners that
>> create them as a side business as well. Some just have the ADA, others
>> customize the order to include state access provisions too.
>> I won't mention them on list as I would rather not run afoul of the
>> "No Advertising" rule.
>>
>> CAVEAT: Your Mileage May Vary
>>
>> Wayne And Harley
>>
>> *On 2/12/2017 10:22 AM, Jameyanne Fuller via NAGDU wrote:
>>> Wow so many responses! You all have really persuaded me, particularly
>>> Buddy's letter. I find showing the ID is easier and quicker than getting
>>> into a long drawn-out discussion about it. But I have to say I'm not
>>> asked
>>> for it that often, and usually if someone asks, I just say Mopsy is a
>>> service dog, and people leave it at that. The most I showed proof of
>>> Mopsy
>>> being a service dog was in Italy, where I was challenged around every
>>> corner, and it was doubly hard to be credible when I clearly wasn't
>>> Italian
>>> (but I don't know if Italian law prohibits asking like in America).
>>> But I
>>> don't want to hurt other service dog teams because something is
>>> easier for
>>> me.
>>> I'm curious, is there a place where we can get those business-card sized
>>> statements of the ADA? That seems like a really good idea.
>>> Thank you all for all the information and for a great discussion. I'm
>>> glad
>>> to learn so much more about this issue so that I'm no longer
>>> conflicted at
>>> all. I'm taking the side of no license law.
>>> Jameyanne
>>> P.S. Mopsy does not have siblings named Flopsy or Cottontale, but I
>>> do call
>>> her Mopsy Flopsy when she's being silly and flopping all over the place.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of lkeeler---
>>> via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 9:06 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: lkeeler at comcast.net
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>>>
>>> I've only did it twice. Once, I told them I didn't have to do it
>>> but,. And,
>>> actually, several times for the grins of it. It can get you out of a fix
>>> quick!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Cindy Ray via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 8:32 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Cc: Cindy Ray
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>>>
>>> In your message you indicated that you have to choose your battles.
>>> How do
>>> you do that? I agree you do, but is it really so much easier to show the
>>> school's ID? I can't say I have never done it, but each time we do it we
>>> legitimize people's asking for those IDs. For me, that makes it less
>>> effective to have the law on our side.
>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jameyanne
>>> Fuller
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 12:23 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Jameyanne Fuller <jameyanne at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>>>
>>> Hello all from snowy Cambridge,
>>> I haven't posted on here much because law school has eaten my life
>>> (Mopsy is
>>> loving Harvard, though), but I have been lurking. I've always been
>>> curious
>>> about a service dog license law, so I'm chiming in with some thoughts.
>>> The ADA limits the sorts of questions you can ask about a person's
>>> disability, including why you have a service dog, and that's what a
>>> service
>>> dog license would violate. I may have missed something else more
>>> specific
>>> though. It's been a while since I read the ADA.
>>> I've always been personally conflicted about a service dog license
>>> law. I
>>> feel like it would discourage fakers, and the number of times I'm
>>> told by
>>> business people that people have tried to fake bringing service dogs
>>> into
>>> places and then the dogs have reeked havoc is really upsetting,
>>> because it
>>> means the business person automatically doesn't trust me or Mopsy.
>>> Setting aside the issues with the ADA for the moment, I don't think
>>> it's the
>>> sort of law that could be implemented in one state because it would
>>> limit
>>> people's freedom of movement (we don't have to get a license to go on
>>> vacation).
>>> And there's also the issue Daryl raised about being asked to show the
>>> license multiple times a day, which is really upsetting.
>>> There may be a way to implement something that would limit fakers and
>>> preserve our rights at the same time. Unfortunately I've been doing
>>> legal
>>> research all day on another issue and my brain is kind of fried so I
>>> can't
>>> come up with a creative solution at the moment, but I'll continue to
>>> think
>>> about it.
>>> I do have to say that I carry Mopsy's seeing eye ID with me
>>> everywhere, and
>>> I have no problem showing it to someone who asks for proof that Mopsy
>>> is a
>>> service dog. I know I don't have to do this, and I've even had people
>>> tell
>>> me that by showing Mopsy's ID I'm hurting people with service dogs
>>> who don't
>>> have IDs. But it's a whole lot simpler to just show the ID than fighting
>>> back when I have the ID. I can't fight on every issue. I also inform
>>> them
>>> that while I have an ID, not all schools give IDs, and under the ADA
>>> they
>>> can't legally ask for an ID in the first place. I recognize that it
>>> may not
>>> always be effective to give them the proof they ask for while at the
>>> same
>>> time telling them they can't legally ask for it, but I've found
>>> people tend
>>> to be much more sensitive to this after I have shown them the ID and
>>> legitimized myself. They're much more willing to talk and learn.
>>> So I guess my point is, it's complicated. I understand and agree with
>>> both
>>> the reasons for such a law and the reasons against it. I agree that
>>> without
>>> safeguards, a service dog license law would be a violation of our
>>> rights.
>>> But at the same time, something has to be done about the fakers.
>>> Stay warm!
>>> Jameyanne and Mopsy
>>> jameyanne at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary
>>> Steeves via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 12:54 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Gary Steeves <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Service dog license
>>>
>>> Hi Daryl what province is it in
>>>
>>> On February 11, 2017 9:09:40 PM PST, Daryl via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I live in Canada, and one of our provinces has enacted such a law. It's
>>>> honestly been incredibly frustrating. People who live there have told
>>>> me that just by going about their business with their service dogs,
>>>> they are asked for identifying documents several times a day. One has
>>>> even told me that she is reluctant to leave her house with her service
>>>> dog because she gets asked for paperwork so frequently. They have not
>>>> addressed the issue of owner trainers, or visitors to the province. For
>>>> example, if I travel there on a family emergency, I can pre apply for a
>>>> temporary ID card. This greatly restrict the movement of Canadian
>>>> citizens, which is against the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If you
>>>> are getting asked for ID when you buy alcohol or verify your ID when
>>>> writing checks, it's because everybody gets ask for that information.
>>>> You personally are not targeted.
>>>>
>>>> On February 11, 2017 10:02:11 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Dar,
>>>>> Apologies, I forgot about those groups, didn't intend to.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to show ID when I go to get alcohol though...  and for things
>>>>> like writing checks and verifying my identity at the airport...
>>>>>
>>>>> Wouldn't something like this help with 'fakers'?
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if there could even be some sort of accreditation process
>>>> that
>>>>> you could go through if you owner trained or had somebody help you
>>>>> train your dog to a group like IAADP?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2017, at 11:54 PM, Daryl via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I can't speak for anybody else, but as for myself I have big
>>>> problems
>>>>> with such an idea. It makes people with disabilities who use service
>>>>> dogs targets for anybody who wants to see identifiable information.
>>>>> Yes, to drive a car you need a license. But you are only requested for
>>>>> that license if you are driving erratically. Also, if a person chooses
>>>>> to owner train their dog, or if they're disability makes owner
>>>> training
>>>>> the only viable option, they are at a distinct disadvantage.
>>>>>>> On February 11, 2017 9:46:58 PM MST, Nancy VanderBrink via NAGDU
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey guys,
>>>>>>> So I'm going to make you mad at me but I don't
>>>>> understandsomething...
>>>>>>> If you have to get a license to drive why not one for a guide dog.
>>>>>>> I know that people who were glasses are supposed to have their
>>>>> picture
>>>>>>> taken with her glasses on and I guess I wonder why he could not be
>>>>>>> something like that but for us with our dog?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know figuring out how to come up with some sort of database of
>>>>>>> accredited schools and then how to figure out how to make sure
>>>> these
>>>>>>> places are accredited would be a process but I guess I kind of
>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>> if having it on something that already exists and is already
>>>>> official
>>>>>>> wouldn't that make it easier?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I mean, if I have to go get a new ID when I move wouldn't it make
>>>>> sense
>>>>>>> to just go get a new ID with your picture of you and your partner
>>>> in
>>>>> it
>>>>>>> that way?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not trying to ignite a fire storm or anything I just don't
>>>>> really
>>>>>>> understand why this is such a big deal. I understand the need for
>>>>>>> privacy but I'm not even really saying that you have to say on
>>>> there
>>>>>>> why you have the dog I guess I really just kind of would think that
>>>>> if
>>>>>>> they could get accredited schools in a database and then the DMV
>>>>> could
>>>>>>> choose the school you went to given on some sort  of letter or
>>>>>>> something, why is that bad???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just trying to understand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> vandyvanderbrink at outlook.com
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>>>>> -- 
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>>
>>
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