[NAGDU] Religious Issue

Fri Feb 17 00:56:22 UTC 2017

Rebecca, that's why he got the dog. The dog is guiding him. Let us let him
ask the questions he came here to ask in the first place. The children are
to be cared for on Sabbath. 
Cindy Lou Ray
cindyray at gmail.com	 

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer via
NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:20 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Religious Issue

			Thank you for explaining how your faith works.
Wouldn't a baby-sitter mean someone else has to work on the Sabbath? 
I'm still struggling with not using a cane on the Sabbath, is the rabi
willing to guide you where you need and want to go? Are you willing to do
this? You could literally be killed crossing a street without a cane or a
dog, and it strikes me that form is being put before content here. 

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 5:39 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Religious Issue

Moshe, what did TSE suggest that you do about the Sabbath poop pick up. Most
folks regard it as irresponsible if you don't clean up after your dog. I've
done what you are suggesting before, and this guy just went off on me like I
was doing the worst thing imaginable. I thought that at least no one would
step in it, but this man just went on about why did I bother to pick it up
and bag it if I wasn't going to dispose of it.
Cindy Lou Ray
cindyray at gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Moshe Segal via
NAGDU
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2017 12:21 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Cc: Moshe Segal <moshesegal at ameritech.net>
Subject: [NAGDU] Religious Issue

To clarify the rules and clear misunderstandings:

Whoever says it is not permitted to feed one's dog on the Sabbath is wrong.
A person is allowed, and even required to feed any animal that belongs to
him/her or whom he/she is responsible for its support.  It is only not
allowed to feed wild animals who do not have owners, but even there an
exception exists in the case of dogs.  In general, whether on the Sabbath or
weekdays, one is always required to feed one's animals before feeding
oneself.  Of course one is not allowed to cook, kill animals, pick fruits or
vegetables or grass, or do any of the activities that are already forbidden
to feed humans or animals, but there is nothing wrong with filling a bowl
with dog food from a container.

In the case of relieving, the problem is not taking them out, but picking up
after them, which involves carrying a pickup bag and carrying it outside,
used or unused.  When I talk of controlling it, I mean that I try to
accustom the dog to go in a place that it is least offensive to leave the
waste.

As far as the prohibition of carrying things from point A to Point B, that
only applies outside.  You can carry things around in your home or in a
building the whole day.  Even outside, it is possible to have a structure
called an Eruv, to permit carrying within its boundaries.  
Orthodox Jews generally have many children, and tend to their needs within
the parameter of the rules of what activities are permitted.  In the absence
of an Eruv, however, those that cannot walk cannot be carried, and a parent
has to stay home or get a babysitter.  Flushing is not a problem, probably
because is causing the water and what is in it to exit the house in an
indirect way, and the pipes may be considered an enclosed area.

With regard to eyeglasses, they are worn, not carried.  A person is expected
to wear clothing, and even in some cases jewlry, and most things are
permitted.  The dog, who we are not allowed to make violate the Sabbath, is
not carrying the harness because he is wearing it, and the leash is
attached, and I am holding at at one end.

In conclusion, I would address certain comments.  Personally, with regard to
others, my attitude is live and let live, provided that each is respectful
of the other's position.  As far as religion being at fault for the evils of
the world, in my mind it is often the practitioners and sometimes the
teachers who give interpretations that were not intended.  Most religious
laws, whatever the creed may be, are intended to promote harmony with the
world, and good relations between human beings.  With regard to Orthodox
Judaism, we believe that the laws, whether scriptural in origin, or
legislated by the legal system that scriptures establish, are commanded or
sanctioned by God, and following His orders super cedes any human laws that
may contradict them, though there is a Talmudic  injunction to follow the
law of the land, provided it is not in direct opposition to Jewish law.  It
would be similar to following the orders of a CEO over a contradicting
instruction of a supervisor.  Although most of the laws may and should be
broken in life-threatening situations, there are three cardinal prohibitions
that we are required to give our lives rather than violate, and any of the
others likewise if the motive of the person threatening is to divert us from
the faith.

That said, I hope I am ready to discuss matters regarding guide dog use and
ownership that are not connected with religion. Regards.

     Moshe

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