[NAGDU] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement
Marianne Denning
marianne at denningweb.com
Tue Jan 17 19:11:41 UTC 2017
I did not vote against that resolution because I am afraid of standing up to agencies for the blind. I had my reasons for voting against it so please don't paint everyone was such a broad brush. We can disagree without being a frayed of blindness agencies.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 17, 2017, at 1:13 PM, S L Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Hello:
>
> The problem is that some guide dog handlers do not act like responsible
> adults therefore, the schools think they have to monitor all of us. I have
> seen many dogs being forced to work when they were either too old or too ill
> to be working. This is extremely irresponsible as well as cruel to the dog.
> We all have seen teams that should not be working because the dog is not
> under good control or a safe guide. I think the schools get worried about
> this kind of behavior by the handlers so they try to put things into their
> contracts in order to keep their dogs safe. A much better way of dealing
> with this should be to give us ownership and deal with irresponsible
> handlers on a case by case basis. I choose to use a school that grants
> ownership for my dogs. The only way things will change is if more graduates
> of these programs are willing to speak out against the schools about their
> contracts and any other training issues. I was amazed that the resolution
> did not pass at the convention in 2015. Too many blind people are too
> afraid to speak up to a training center or official at a blindness agency.
> As blind people we must be willing to fight for our rights.
>
> Sandra Johnson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU President via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 7:44 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: NAGDU President
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement
>
> Mr. Levine,
>
> First of all, I do own the operating system and the software on my
> computer. I paid for the Windows OS and for my Microsoft software. As for
> the iOS software on my iPhone, what I agree to is that I will not use the
> software in an illegal manner and will not corrupt the operating system.
> Neither Microsoft nor Apple have the right to take away my phone that I have
> paid for nor do they have the right to repossess the software I have bought
> without cause nor without due process.
>
> Many guide dog training programs treat adult consumers as if they
> were children and many guide dog consumers allow them to do so. Until we
> stand up and oppose their paternalistic behavior and expose it for what it
> is, they will continue to treat us as they do. Take a look at some of these
> programs who say their dogs give blind people dignity then consider the
> undignified manner in which they treat them. Guide dog training programs
> need to let go of their archaic thinking and start treating us like
> responsible adults!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
> National Federation of the Blind
> (813) 626-2789
> President at NAGDU.ORG
>
>
> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind people
> and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds
> you back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Howard J. Levine
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:54 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Howard J. Levine
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement
>
> Just think of am I Phone or computers that so many people own, you don't own
> the software or the operating system. You buy the I Phone or a computer then
> you don't click agree then you can't use the I Phone or your computer. You
> need agree to apples terms and conditions before you can use the device.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wayne & Harley
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:04 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Wayne & Harley
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Southeastern Guide Dogs Ownership Agreement
>
> *Hello Ms. Tara,
> On the face of it, the petition is a good idea, however, what if Southeast
> Guide Dogs decides to take all the names on the petition and repossess the
> guides of the signatories, or refuse them any further service?
>
> CAVEAT: Your Mileage May Vary
>
> Wayne And Harley
>
> *On 1/7/2017 10:21 AM, Tara Wiseman via NAGDU wrote:
>> What about writing a petition and creating a Facebook page for all
> Southeastern guide dog users and see if you can get a bunch of people to
> sign the petition and send it to the school to have them change the
> contract. The contract certainly seems wrong to me!
>>
>> Check out my podcast found at:abilitystories.podbean.com and on iTunes
>>
>>> On Jan 7, 2017, at 7:05 AM, Erika Wolf via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> I share your same concerns stated regarding this ownership policy
> agreement set forth by Southeastern Guide Dogs. What can be done to change
> the language of this ownership agreement?
>>> Owners of guide dogs absolutely need to be protected upon obtaining
> their guide dog without all these preposterous unnecessary restrictions
> being placed upon the new handler.
>>> Hence, limiting the time a person can actually work his or her guide dog.
> This is extremely troubling to me as I read through all that you've
> outlined.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Jan 7, 2017, at 5:32 AM, NAGDU President via NAGDU
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> FYI, I am sharing with you the ownership agreement of
>>>> Southeastern Guide Dogs. This agreement was shared with me by a
>>>> graduate of the program. I would like to call your attention to
>>>> paragraph 3 of the agreement which states in part
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "3. RETIREMENT. It is understood and agreed to that the Dog
>>>>
>>>> will be retired if, in the sole opinion of any SEGDI staff or
>>>> representative, the Dog is not healthy enough to continue as a
>>>> guide
> dog.
>>>> It is also understood and agreed to that the Dog MUST be retired on
>>>> or before his/her eleventh (11 th) Birthday"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I have some serious concerns about this paragraph. My
>>>> first and obvious concern is that it allows Southeastern to
>>>> repossess a dog with the sole discretion of any staff member of
>>>> Southeastern should that person determine the dog is not healthy to
>>>> continue as a guide dog. It does not require any objective evidence
>>>> nor that the person making such a decision be competent to do so.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This paragraph also requires an owner to retire their
>>>> dog on or before its 11th birthday. My second guide dog,
>>>> incidentally from Southeastern Guide Dogs, worked until he was
>>>> nearly 15 years old. Mike Sergeant used to refer to him as
>>>> "Superdog"! My third guide dog, also from Southeastern, worked until
>>>> she was 13 years old. It is my opinion that, if we own our dogs, no
>>>> one has the right to require we retire the dog and the 11-year-old
>>>> mark is arbitrary. Many of us have had guide dogs that have worked
>>>> well
> past the 11 year mark.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, please pay attention to paragraph 5 in which
>>>> Southeastern has the right to repossess the dog for reasons of
>>>> "suspected abuse or negligence". This is troubling because it does
>>>> not require any evidence of abuse or neglect, simply a suspicion of
> abuse or neglect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Many other training programs have similar conditions
>>>> which I believe are paternalistic and arbitrary. I encourage each of
>>>> you to consider what you would do and how you would feel if someone
>>>> levied an unfounded, anonymous complaint of abuse or neglect against
>>>> you and, based upon this anonymous, unfounded complaint and, inspite
>>>> of the assertions of your veterinarian and close family and friends,
>>>> there was no evidence of abuse, your dog was repossessed. Lest you
>>>> say this would not happen, let me tell you it has and is currently
> occurring!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>>
>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
>>>>
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>
>>>> (813) 626-2789
>>>>
>>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>>>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
>>>> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind
>>>> people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is
>>>> not what holds you back.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> tt.net
>>>
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>
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