[NAGDU] NAGDU Digest, Vol 146, Issue 35
Mardi Hadfield
wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com
Thu Jun 1 03:39:51 UTC 2017
Charlene, Mardi here. Thank you so much, for passing on the onfo about
Idiopathic Vestibolar Desise. I have many dogs here as I am involved in a
rescue and I am also training a puppy for afriend of mine. I have several
older dogs ,so it is good to know about this. Again, Thanks, Mardi and
Shaman,retired aaaand Neechee,GD and Sedona, GDIT.
On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 5:00 AM, <nagdu-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
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>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Dog cologne (Raul A. Gallegos)
> 2. Re: Dog cologne (Cindy Ray)
> 3. Re: Dog cologne (Sonja O)
> 4. Re: Dog cologne (Becky Frankeberger)
> 5. Re: NAGDU Digest, Vol 146, Issue 34 (Mardi Hadfield)
> 6. Re: Dog cologne (Melissa R Green)
> 7. FW: old dog disease (Charlene Ota)
> 8. Nagdu meeting at National Convention (Helga Schreiber)
> 9. Re: FW: old dog disease (Nancy VanderBrink)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 11:38:41 -0500
> From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul at raulgallegos.com>
> To: NAGDU List <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Dog cologne
> Message-ID: <E831D56E-BB4E-47AA-BC07-584CAAB87168 at raulgallegos.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hello all. I found this on Amazon while shopping for a grooming glove and
> it got me thinking, are dog colognes safe? What are people's views on using
> them in addition to daily grooming?
>
> Fresh 'n Clean Fresh 'n Clean? Cologne Spray Tropical Scent
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UKPW7Y2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_GZelzbYK3YDBE
>
>
> --
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Assistive Technology Trainer - RGA Tech Solutions
>
> Mobile: 832.554.7285
> Work: 832.639.4477
> Personal Email: raul at raulgallegos.com
> Work Email: training at rgats.com
>
> ?Any teacher that can be replaced with a computer, deserves to be.? ?
> David Thornburg
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 11:41:14 -0500
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Dog cologne
> Message-ID: <00c101d2d89a$63384140$29a8c3c0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I would use it very carefully. Some dogs' skin reacts violently to it. It
> doesn't seem to affect others. I just don't use it myself.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> Cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raul A.
> Gallegos via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:39 AM
> To: NAGDU List <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Raul A. Gallegos <raul at raulgallegos.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Dog cologne
>
> Hello all. I found this on Amazon while shopping for a grooming glove and
> it got me thinking, are dog colognes safe? What are people's views on using
> them in addition to daily grooming?
>
> Fresh 'n Clean Fresh 'n Clean? Cologne Spray Tropical Scent
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UKPW7Y2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_GZelzbYK3YDBE
>
>
> --
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Assistive Technology Trainer - RGA Tech Solutions
>
> Mobile: 832.554.7285
> Work: 832.639.4477
> Personal Email: raul at raulgallegos.com
> Work Email: training at rgats.com
>
> ?Any teacher that can be replaced with a computer, deserves to be.? ?
> David Thornburg
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 18:24:57 +0000
> From: Sonja O <sohldag at hotmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Dog cologne
> Message-ID:
> <BY2PR01MB1055381D1193C2C2F7A697EB5F30 at BY2PR01MB105.prod.exc
> hangelabs.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I wouldn't use any scented products but rather regularly groom and bathe
> your dog.
> Chief gets a bath at least once a week and combed daily.
> We're inside places frequently and around people, who have sensitivities
> and allergies.
> Any kind of scented products are not helpful.
> My favorite, because it's helps with shedding and leaves their coats
> beautifully are any of the chubbs soaps for dogs.
> Here the link:
>
> http://www.chubbsbars.com/
>
> My favorite are the unscented, the sugar scrub, the mints and the vanillas
> and the chai tea.
> You can detect a scent, but after the bath my dog simply smells fresh :)
> Hope that helps..
>
> On top of that I hate using grooming products other than natural ones.
> Happy greetings,
> Sonja and Chief
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 29, 2017, at 9:43 AM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>
> I would use it very carefully. Some dogs' skin reacts violently to it. It
> doesn't seem to affect others. I just don't use it myself.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> Cindyray at gmail.com<mailto:Cindyray at gmail.com>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raul A.
> Gallegos via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 11:39 AM
> To: NAGDU List <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> Cc: Raul A. Gallegos <raul at raulgallegos.com<mailto:raul at raulgallegos.com>>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Dog cologne
>
> Hello all. I found this on Amazon while shopping for a grooming glove and
> it got me thinking, are dog colognes safe? What are people's views on using
> them in addition to daily grooming?
>
> Fresh 'n Clean Fresh 'n Clean? Cologne Spray Tropical Scent
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UKPW7Y2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_GZelzbYK3YDBE
>
>
> --
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Assistive Technology Trainer - RGA Tech Solutions
>
> Mobile: 832.554.7285
> Work: 832.639.4477
> Personal Email: raul at raulgallegos.com<mailto:raul at raulgallegos.com>
> Work Email: training at rgats.com<mailto:training at rgats.com>
>
> ?Any teacher that can be replaced with a computer, deserves to be.? ?
> David Thornburg
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
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>
>
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> NAGDU:
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 11:34:48 -0700
> From: "Becky Frankeberger" <b.butterfly at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Dog cologne
> Message-ID: <006901d2d8aa$41330bb0$c3992310$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have used similar in theocasionally. Spray above the dog and let the
> mist droplets fall down. Then you rub the droplets through the coat.
> Usually one spray is all you need.
>
> One spray? Yes, there are some of us who get very sick from heavy perfumes
> on humans and dogs. I get instant massive headaches and usually I don't
> become aware of the smell until I am already gasping for breath and sick
> with a headache. So spray above the dog's back. Then take your hands and
> rub the droplets lightly on the top of the fur. I and fellow sensitive
> types should be fine with this method.
>
> Thank you for your kindness,
>
> Becky and Jake
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raul A.
> Gallegos via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 9:39 AM
> To: NAGDU List <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Raul A. Gallegos <raul at raulgallegos.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Dog cologne
>
> Hello all. I found this on Amazon while shopping for a grooming glove and
> it got me thinking, are dog colognes safe? What are people's views on using
> them in addition to daily grooming?
>
> Fresh 'n Clean Fresh 'n Clean? Cologne Spray Tropical Scent
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UKPW7Y2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_GZelzbYK3YDBE
>
>
> --
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Assistive Technology Trainer - RGA Tech Solutions
>
> Mobile: 832.554.7285
> Work: 832.639.4477
> Personal Email: raul at raulgallegos.com
> Work Email: training at rgats.com
>
> ?Any teacher that can be replaced with a computer, deserves to be.? ?
> David Thornburg
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/b.butterf
> ly%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 16:04:32 -0700
> From: Mardi Hadfield <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] NAGDU Digest, Vol 146, Issue 34
> Message-ID:
> <CAHgwiL9CgS3OQZFD9hGsT92LiRfDEtfaYk9QYvDmdr1xSh1UmQ at mail.gm
> ail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi guys, Mardi here. I trained Sedona to pick up my keys as I tend to drop
> them often,because I have nuropathy in my hands. I started when I would
> catch her chewing on something inappropriate as a young puppy, by taking
> that away and saying "give" and then I gave her a toy or a treat that she
> could chew. I then played catch with her and when I would throw the ball,
> kong or other toy that she wanted to play with,I would say "bring it" and
> she always wanted me to throw it again so she associated the words with me
> throwing it again if she brought it back to me. I used the word "give" for
> her to release it into my hand and she got it pretty fast. I began throwing
> the toy closer and closer to me and she would pick it up and bring it to me
> and give it to me. Next, I used my keys instead of a toy and tossed them
> about 3 or 4 feet away from me and she would pick them up and bring them to
> me. I put a piece of leather on the key ring as dogs don't like the feel
> of metal in their mouth. I then began tossing it closer to me,until I just
> dropped them by my foot. I would give the commands to bring it and give and
> she did. I can only do this about 3 times in a row,as she will only bring
> them to me a certain amount of times. I guess she thinks that I should not
> be that clumsy that many times in a row.. When we practice doing this, I
> will only drop the keys twice so she will bring them to me and give them to
> me every time. It is hard for me to bend down from a wheelchair as my back
> hurts when I do it so this is very helpful. I have not taught her to pick
> up any thing but her toy or my keys. She does it every time I ask her to.
> I do not want her to pick up random things ,so I only ask for those 2
> items. Lily was also good at picking things up for me, but she learned many
> more things than just my keys. Both Lily and Sedona were puppies when I
> taught them this. My other guides were not young puppies when I got them.
> Shaman was 10 months and I tried to teach him but he decided he did not
> want to do it. Both Nala and Neechee refused to learn to pick up any
> thing. They were both,one and a half years old, when I got them. I do
> agree that guiding is the most important thing and I was more disabled when
> I had Lily than I was when I had the others. I am back in my wheelchair
> almost full time now so it is help full to me now for my dog to at least
> pick up the keys for me. Hope this is not to confusing. Mardi and
> Shaman,retired and Neechee, GD and Sedona,GDI.
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 5:00 AM, <nagdu-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> > Send NAGDU mailing list submissions to
> > nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > nagdu-owner at nfbnet.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of NAGDU digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: OFF NAGDU List ownership (Becky Frankeberger)
> > 2. Re: Finding Dropped Items (Rachel Grider)
> > 3. Re: Finding Dropped Items (Cindy Ray)
> > 4. Re: Finding Dropped Items (Rachel Grider)
> > 5. Re: Finding Dropped Items (Cindy Ray)
> > 6. Re: Finding Dropped Items (Wayne & Harley)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 06:45:00 -0700
> > From: "Becky Frankeberger" <b.butterfly at comcast.net>
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> > Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] OFF NAGDU List ownership
> > Message-ID: <005101d2d6ef$701f4130$505dc390$@comcast.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > To add a bit to Lyn's fine post, or the handler could voluntarily give up
> > the dog. Now whether they care to admit they gave up ownership is
> another
> > thing to look into.
> >
> > Warmly, Becky and the sweetest Jake
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of L Gwizdak via
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 5:59 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: L Gwizdak <leg1950 at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] OFF NAGDU List ownership
> >
> > Hi folks,
> > I have had dogs from Seeing Eye for many years now and have never heard
> of
> > any dog being repossessed by TSE. When you leave the school, your
> > ownership
> > begins as we have no contracts or graduations. Once at home, the only
> way
> > TSE can have a dog removed from a graduate is through the person's home
> > Humane Society or Animal Control. The issue is taken care of just like
> it
> > is for any dog owner.
> >
> > Lyn and Aristotle
> > "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> > asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "NAGDU President via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: "NAGDU President" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2017 12:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] OFF NAGDU List ownership
> >
> >
> > > Brenda,
> > >
> > > Since the incident you mention was hearsay, it is very difficult to
> > > make a comment. I think that any repossession by TSE would be either
> > > very improbable or a very serious issue. Whichever it is, I believe
> > > there is much more to the story.
> > >
> > > Fraternally yours,
> > > Marion
> > >
> > > Marion Gwizdala, President
> > > National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National
> > > Federation of the Blind
> > > (813) 626-2789
> > > President at NAGDU.ORG
> > >
> > >
> > > The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
> > > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> > > expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind
> > > people and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is
> > > not what holds you back.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brenda via
> > > NAGDU
> > > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:15 PM
> > > To: The Pawpower Pack via NAGDU
> > > Cc: Brenda
> > > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] OFF NAGDU List ownership
> > >
> > > Hey Rox,
> > >
> > > No, someone told me there were situations at TSE a few years ago.
> > > brenda
> > >
> > > On 5/19/2017 10:09 PM, The Pawpower Pack via NAGDU wrote:
> > >> Hey Jeff,
> > >> I think she was referring to South Eastern as se.
> > >>
> > >> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
> > >> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> > >> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>> On May 19, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Jeffrey Young via NAGDU <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Brenda,
> > >>> Your message intended for Marian went to the entire list. Just
> letting
> > > you know.
> > >>> I would however, like to hear of a TSE handlers dog being
> repossessed,
> > >>> as
> > > TSE grants unconditional ownership upon graduation. Therefore, such an
> > > action would constitute theft under the law, and the handler would have
> > > legal recourse, which is not the case when a school does not grant
> > > ownership.
> > >>>
> > >>> Jeff Young
> > >>>
> > >>>> On May 19, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Brenda via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi Marion,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm writing off list.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In a perfect world all guide dog schools would give instant
> ownership.
> > > Because I'm not impressed with the schools that do, and those I am
> > > interested in do not, I am willing to make compromises. Also, I have
> > heard
> > > from someone who had their TSE guide removed and TSE gives full
> ownership
> > > so
> > > it would appear even with full ownership there could be issues.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I respect and agree with you about ownership, but practical
> > application
> > > wins out for me. The benefits will have to outweigh the risks as it
> were.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I do respect your opinion so am sharing my comments and questions
> with
> > > you.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Southeastern has in addition to the 11-yr retirement rule, a
> provision
> > > where they can reclaim the dog before 5 years if the team isn't
> working.
> > > I
> > > realize there is an expense to train a dog, but it is one more trauma
> for
> > > a
> > > handler who may have a situation where they can no longer work - if
> they
> > > had
> > > full ownership, this would not happen. I think they also have some
> other
> > > stipulations regarding ownership. My friend who has a guide from
> > > Southeastern said they have had incidents where they felt it necessary
> to
> > > make these provisions.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I am curious if you could tell me if you have ever run across a
> recent
> > > situation where a handler from Guiding Eyes for the Blind had their dog
> > > removed? If so, can you give me a summary of what happened? I can ask
> > > GEB,
> > > but I am interested in an outside source such as yourself.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have not made a final decision, and appreciate your input.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sincerely,
> > >>>> Brenda
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> NAGDU mailing list
> > >>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> > > NAGDU:
> > >>>>
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeff.
> > young8806%40gmail.co
> > > m
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> NAGDU mailing list
> > >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > NAGDU:
> > >>>
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/
> > pawpower4me%40gmail.com
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> NAGDU mailing list
> > >> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > NAGDU:
> > >>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/bjnite%
> 40windstream.net
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NAGDU mailing list
> > > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
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> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > NAGDU:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/
> > blind411%40verizon.net
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NAGDU mailing list
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> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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> >
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> > butterfly%40comcast.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 11:52:33 -0700
> > From: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> > Users"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Finding Dropped Items
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAAQhqyTcEv0iQ2_eN_JZ-zY4yYmz+bnmpyD9VSBhZ-uz-DfQxQ@
> > mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Thank you for this information! I started this a couple days ago using
> > sort of a mixture between the two methods described. Demi picked it up
> > very quickly. She has mastered putting her paw on a dropped item both
> > in and out of harness. when working in harness, I would drop an object
> > like my phone or credit card, then would drop the harness and say
> > "find it," and Demi would put her paw on the item. We have only done
> > this for practice at home so far.
> >
> > I am wondering, though, for those of you who actually have your dogs
> > pick up items, how one would train a dog to pick something up on
> > command? Demi will fetch, but that is only with her toys, and it seems
> > like using clicker to teach a dog to pick up an object would be
> > counterproductive because the dog expects a treat at the sound of the
> > clicker. Does anyone have insight on this? I don't know if I even want
> > to train Demi to pick up items; I definitely wouldn't want her doing
> > it in harness, but it could be a useful skill to have for certain
> > situations when off leash at home or in a hotel room...<div
> > id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br />
> > <table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
> > <tr>
> > <td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
> > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > target="_blank"><img
> > src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-
> > tick-green-avg-v1.png"
> > alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
> > /></a></td>
> > <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color:
> #41424e;
> > font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> > line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
> > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a>
> > </td>
> > </tr>
> > </table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
> > height="1"></a></div>
> >
> > On 5/23/17, Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > > I taught this a bit different, basically just shaping natural
> > > tendencies. I noticed that my dog would immediately go to something
> > > out of place or new that he hadn't noticed before. I paired this
> > > natural behavior with a phrase. I use, "find it". Then give praise
> > > when he went to it. My dog does a nose target, which I found to work
> > > just fine and so I continue to use that. He does not pick up random
> > > objects, so that was not a worry for me.
> > >
> > > Later I set up situations with objects that I had placed in a known
> > > location and then called him to find it. I used a lot of verbal
> > > encouragement and praise. When he found the thing he got more praise,
> > > pats and acknowledgement. I don't remember using clicker and treats to
> > > teach this, but I may have at some point. I did try to teach a retrieve
> > > at some point, but gave up because he absolutely refused to pick up
> > > anything that he didn't recognize as his. We had a lot of problems
> when
> > > he was a puppy with chewing up stuff, so I spent a lot of time teaching
> > > him to only chew on his things. I guess he took that to heart. Of
> > > course every dog is different and it is quite possible that with more
> > > time I could have taught him a retrieve. Finding things on the floor
> > > was really what I needed so I stopped with just locating objects.
> > >
> > > I think Danielle's method would work also. is a lot more
> > > methodical and systematic. I do try to have training plans and teach
> > > things step by step, but then life happens and we end up using the fly
> > > by the seat of your pants method.
> > >
> > > Oh, I should add the find it is something that I only use at home or in
> > > a hotel room, out of harness and off leash. Monty will not find
> objects
> > > on the floor when working in harness.
> > >
> > > Good luck!
> > > Julie
> > > http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5/22/2017 7:38 PM, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU wrote:
> > >> I taught my dog how to find dropped items, by putting his paw on or
> > >> near the object. Here's the outline of how I taught this, using the
> > >> clicker.
> > >>
> > >> 1: Start with one object (I think I used an index card or some kind of
> > >> paper/cardboard). Hold it in your hand, show it to the dog, and click
> > >> and treat when the dog paws it. My dog tried nosing the object,
> > >> mouthing it, and barking in frustration before he finally got it.
> > >> 2: Once your dog paws the object reliably, put the command to it, (I
> > >> used "get it"). Make sure the dog reliably paws the object when you
> > >> give the command.
> > >> 3: Drop the object right in front of the dog from just a few inches
> > >> off the ground. Tell the dog "get it", and click and treat for pawing
> > >> the object.
> > >> 4: Drop the object from higher off the ground, but still in front of
> the
> > >> dog.
> > >> 5: start dropping the object progressively further away from the dog.
> > >> 6: Temporarily pair the "get it" and "stay" commands. This way, the
> > >> dog will paw the object and then stay there until you come over to
> > >> pick it up. Release the dog from the stay only after you pick up the
> > >> object. Eventually, you can drop "stay" and just say "get it".
> > >> 7: Start practicing with a variety of different items.
> > >>
> > >> **In the initial stages, make sure to use something that is easy to
> > >> hear when your dog's paw makes contact with it.
> > >>
> > >> Danielle and Thai
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 5/22/17, Rachel Grider via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>> Hello, All:
> > >>>
> > >>> Awhile ago, there was a discussion about teaching dogs to fetch, and
> > >>> someone on this list (I don't remember who) talked about teaching a
> > >>> guide dog how to find dropped items--not necessarily how to pick them
> > >>> up, but just to find them by touching the item. I would like to learn
> > >>> more about training my guide dog to do that. Does anyone have
> > >>> information about this?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you!
> > >>>
> > >>> Rachel
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> NAGDU mailing list
> > >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >>> NAGDU:
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/
> > dsykora29%40gmail.com
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> NAGDU mailing list
> > >> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> NAGDU:
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/
> > julielj402%40gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NAGDU mailing list
> > > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > NAGDU:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/
> > rachel.grider%40gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 14:29:06 -0500
> > From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> > Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Finding Dropped Items
> > Message-ID: <007f01d2d71f$82384710$86a8d530$@gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > When I say this, it is not meant as a criticism of what
> > people do. I had a black lab, my second dog, who was just a masterful
> > fetcher, and she would pick things up and drop them in my hand. Once she
> > even took a cookie off a tray and I put my hand under her chin and said
> > "out", and the cookie dropped into my hand. She was the only dog I had
> who
> > would do this. I was disappointed that more of my dogs didn't fetch or
> find
> > things. And oh yes, if she was playing with a toy and it went where she
> > couldn't quite find it, she would go as close as she could and put her
> nose
> > in the vicinity and whine. I think that was her anyway, though it could
> > have
> > been Spencer. Anyway, thing is, the dog is a guide. That is its primary
> > purpose. I personally decided that having it do the fetching and finding
> > things was nice but full unnecessary. Please remember that I appreciate
> why
> > people want it, and I would be proud if I had a dog that did it, but it
> > isn't important to me. The one thing that would be just too cool about it
> > would be that I could say I trained the dog to do it.
> >
> > Cindy Lou Ray, Moderator
> > cindyray at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rachel Grider
> > via
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 1:53 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Finding Dropped Items
> >
> > Thank you for this information! I started this a couple days ago using
> sort
> > of a mixture between the two methods described. Demi picked it up very
> > quickly. She has mastered putting her paw on a dropped item both in and
> out
> > of harness. when working in harness, I would drop an object like my phone
> > or
> > credit card, then would drop the harness and say "find it," and Demi
> would
> > put her paw on the item. We have only done this for practice at home so
> > far.
> >
> > I am wondering, though, for those of you who actually have your dogs pick
> > up
> > items, how one would train a dog to pick something up on command? Demi
> will
> > fetch, but that is only with her toys, and it seems like using clicker to
> > teach a dog to pick up an object would be counterproductive because the
> dog
> > expects a treat at the sound of the clicker. Does anyone have insight on
> > this? I don't know if I even want to train Demi to pick up items; I
> > definitely wouldn't want her doing it in harness, but it could be a
> useful
> > skill to have for certain situations when off leash at home or in a hotel
> > room...<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table
> > style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
> > <tr>
> > <td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
> > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&ut
> > m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > target="_blank"><img
> > src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-
> > tick-green-avg-v1.p
> > ng"
> > alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
> > /></a></td>
> > <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color:
> #41424e;
> > font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> > line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
> > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&ut
> > m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a>
> > </td>
> > </tr>
> > </table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
> > height="1"></a></div>
> >
> > On 5/23/17, Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > > I taught this a bit different, basically just shaping natural
> > > tendencies. I noticed that my dog would immediately go to something
> > > out of place or new that he hadn't noticed before. I paired this
> > > natural behavior with a phrase. I use, "find it". Then give praise
> > > when he went to it. My dog does a nose target, which I found to work
> > > just fine and so I continue to use that. He does not pick up random
> > > objects, so that was not a worry for me.
> > >
> > > Later I set up situations with objects that I had placed in a known
> > > location and then called him to find it. I used a lot of verbal
> > > encouragement and praise. When he found the thing he got more praise,
> > > pats and acknowledgement. I don't remember using clicker and treats
> > > to teach this, but I may have at some point. I did try to teach a
> > > retrieve at some point, but gave up because he absolutely refused to
> > > pick up anything that he didn't recognize as his. We had a lot of
> > > problems when he was a puppy with chewing up stuff, so I spent a lot
> > > of time teaching him to only chew on his things. I guess he took that
> > > to heart. Of course every dog is different and it is quite possible
> > > that with more time I could have taught him a retrieve. Finding
> > > things on the floor was really what I needed so I stopped with just
> > locating objects.
> > >
> > > I think Danielle's method would work also. is a lot more
> > > methodical and systematic. I do try to have training plans and teach
> > > things step by step, but then life happens and we end up using the fly
> > > by the seat of your pants method.
> > >
> > > Oh, I should add the find it is something that I only use at home or
> > > in a hotel room, out of harness and off leash. Monty will not find
> > > objects on the floor when working in harness.
> > >
> > > Good luck!
> > > Julie
> > > http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5/22/2017 7:38 PM, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU wrote:
> > >> I taught my dog how to find dropped items, by putting his paw on or
> > >> near the object. Here's the outline of how I taught this, using the
> > >> clicker.
> > >>
> > >> 1: Start with one object (I think I used an index card or some kind
> > >> of paper/cardboard). Hold it in your hand, show it to the dog, and
> > >> click and treat when the dog paws it. My dog tried nosing the object,
> > >> mouthing it, and barking in frustration before he finally got it.
> > >> 2: Once your dog paws the object reliably, put the command to it, (I
> > >> used "get it"). Make sure the dog reliably paws the object when you
> > >> give the command.
> > >> 3: Drop the object right in front of the dog from just a few inches
> > >> off the ground. Tell the dog "get it", and click and treat for pawing
> > >> the object.
> > >> 4: Drop the object from higher off the ground, but still in front of
> > >> the dog.
> > >> 5: start dropping the object progressively further away from the dog.
> > >> 6: Temporarily pair the "get it" and "stay" commands. This way, the
> > >> dog will paw the object and then stay there until you come over to
> > >> pick it up. Release the dog from the stay only after you pick up the
> > >> object. Eventually, you can drop "stay" and just say "get it".
> > >> 7: Start practicing with a variety of different items.
> > >>
> > >> **In the initial stages, make sure to use something that is easy to
> > >> hear when your dog's paw makes contact with it.
> > >>
> > >> Danielle and Thai
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 5/22/17, Rachel Grider via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>> Hello, All:
> > >>>
> > >>> Awhile ago, there was a discussion about teaching dogs to fetch, and
> > >>> someone on this list (I don't remember who) talked about teaching a
> > >>> guide dog how to find dropped items--not necessarily how to pick
> > >>> them up, but just to find them by touching the item. I would like to
> > >>> learn more about training my guide dog to do that. Does anyone have
> > >>> information about this?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you!
> > >>>
> > >>> Rachel
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> NAGDU mailing list
> > >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >>> for
> > >>> NAGDU:
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail
> > >>> .com
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> NAGDU mailing list
> > >> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> NAGDU:
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj402%40gmail
> > >> .com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NAGDU mailing list
> > > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > NAGDU:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rachel.grider%40gma
> > > il.com
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NAGDU mailing list
> > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > NAGDU:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 12:45:32 -0700
> > From: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> > Users"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Finding Dropped Items
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAAQhqyRaoOF3+scnidHS9ZD8JNKFx=B_CNQPnB-rs-
> > Vy7OyUjA at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > That is a great point, Cindy. That is the reason that I will probably
> > not be doing it with Demi--it isn't really necessary for my needs and
> > would end up being more of a novelty trick. The reason I am
> > considering it is because--and for those of you who have insight on
> > this, please correct me if I'm wrong--I would really like to
> > eventually teach Demi to put away her toys, and I am pretty sure that
> > teaching this starts with the dog being able to pick something up on
> > command. At this point, I can say something like "Go get your (insert
> > name of toy)," and she will usually do it, but if I have her toy in
> > front of her and say the same, she won't take it because she doesn't
> > understand why I would be asking her to get something that is
> > literally right there in front of her. If I tell her to "Bring it to
> > me," she will either bring it close and drop it or try and throw or
> > kick the thing to me, but it is not consistent.<div
> > id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br />
> > <table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
> > <tr>
> > <td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
> > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > target="_blank"><img
> > src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-
> > tick-green-avg-v1.png"
> > alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
> > /></a></td>
> > <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color:
> #41424e;
> > font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> > line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
> > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a>
> > </td>
> > </tr>
> > </table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
> > height="1"></a></div>
> >
> > On 5/27/17, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > > When I say this, it is not meant as a criticism of what
> > > people do. I had a black lab, my second dog, who was just a masterful
> > > fetcher, and she would pick things up and drop them in my hand. Once
> she
> > > even took a cookie off a tray and I put my hand under her chin and said
> > > "out", and the cookie dropped into my hand. She was the only dog I had
> > who
> > > would do this. I was disappointed that more of my dogs didn't fetch or
> > find
> > > things. And oh yes, if she was playing with a toy and it went where she
> > > couldn't quite find it, she would go as close as she could and put her
> > nose
> > > in the vicinity and whine. I think that was her anyway, though it could
> > > have
> > > been Spencer. Anyway, thing is, the dog is a guide. That is its primary
> > > purpose. I personally decided that having it do the fetching and
> finding
> > > things was nice but full unnecessary. Please remember that I appreciate
> > why
> > > people want it, and I would be proud if I had a dog that did it, but it
> > > isn't important to me. The one thing that would be just too cool about
> it
> > > would be that I could say I trained the dog to do it.
> > >
> > > Cindy Lou Ray, Moderator
> > > cindyray at gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rachel
> Grider
> > > via
> > > NAGDU
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 1:53 PM
> > > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > > Cc: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Finding Dropped Items
> > >
> > > Thank you for this information! I started this a couple days ago using
> > sort
> > > of a mixture between the two methods described. Demi picked it up very
> > > quickly. She has mastered putting her paw on a dropped item both in and
> > out
> > > of harness. when working in harness, I would drop an object like my
> phone
> > > or
> > > credit card, then would drop the harness and say "find it," and Demi
> > would
> > > put her paw on the item. We have only done this for practice at home so
> > > far.
> > >
> > > I am wondering, though, for those of you who actually have your dogs
> pick
> > > up
> > > items, how one would train a dog to pick something up on command? Demi
> > will
> > > fetch, but that is only with her toys, and it seems like using clicker
> to
> > > teach a dog to pick up an object would be counterproductive because the
> > dog
> > > expects a treat at the sound of the clicker. Does anyone have insight
> on
> > > this? I don't know if I even want to train Demi to pick up items; I
> > > definitely wouldn't want her doing it in harness, but it could be a
> > useful
> > > skill to have for certain situations when off leash at home or in a
> hotel
> > > room...<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table
> > > style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
> > > <tr>
> > > <td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
> > > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&ut
> > > m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > > target="_blank"><img
> > > src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-
> > tick-green-avg-v1.p
> > > ng"
> > > alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
> > > /></a></td>
> > > <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color:
> #41424e;
> > > font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> > > line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
> > > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&ut
> > > m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > > target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a>
> > > </td>
> > > </tr>
> > > </table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
> > > height="1"></a></div>
> > >
> > > On 5/23/17, Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >> I taught this a bit different, basically just shaping natural
> > >> tendencies. I noticed that my dog would immediately go to something
> > >> out of place or new that he hadn't noticed before. I paired this
> > >> natural behavior with a phrase. I use, "find it". Then give praise
> > >> when he went to it. My dog does a nose target, which I found to work
> > >> just fine and so I continue to use that. He does not pick up random
> > >> objects, so that was not a worry for me.
> > >>
> > >> Later I set up situations with objects that I had placed in a known
> > >> location and then called him to find it. I used a lot of verbal
> > >> encouragement and praise. When he found the thing he got more praise,
> > >> pats and acknowledgement. I don't remember using clicker and treats
> > >> to teach this, but I may have at some point. I did try to teach a
> > >> retrieve at some point, but gave up because he absolutely refused to
> > >> pick up anything that he didn't recognize as his. We had a lot of
> > >> problems when he was a puppy with chewing up stuff, so I spent a lot
> > >> of time teaching him to only chew on his things. I guess he took that
> > >> to heart. Of course every dog is different and it is quite possible
> > >> that with more time I could have taught him a retrieve. Finding
> > >> things on the floor was really what I needed so I stopped with just
> > > locating objects.
> > >>
> > >> I think Danielle's method would work also. is a lot more
> > >> methodical and systematic. I do try to have training plans and teach
> > >> things step by step, but then life happens and we end up using the fly
> > >> by the seat of your pants method.
> > >>
> > >> Oh, I should add the find it is something that I only use at home or
> > >> in a hotel room, out of harness and off leash. Monty will not find
> > >> objects on the floor when working in harness.
> > >>
> > >> Good luck!
> > >> Julie
> > >> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 5/22/2017 7:38 PM, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU wrote:
> > >>> I taught my dog how to find dropped items, by putting his paw on or
> > >>> near the object. Here's the outline of how I taught this, using the
> > >>> clicker.
> > >>>
> > >>> 1: Start with one object (I think I used an index card or some kind
> > >>> of paper/cardboard). Hold it in your hand, show it to the dog, and
> > >>> click and treat when the dog paws it. My dog tried nosing the object,
> > >>> mouthing it, and barking in frustration before he finally got it.
> > >>> 2: Once your dog paws the object reliably, put the command to it, (I
> > >>> used "get it"). Make sure the dog reliably paws the object when you
> > >>> give the command.
> > >>> 3: Drop the object right in front of the dog from just a few inches
> > >>> off the ground. Tell the dog "get it", and click and treat for pawing
> > >>> the object.
> > >>> 4: Drop the object from higher off the ground, but still in front of
> > >>> the dog.
> > >>> 5: start dropping the object progressively further away from the dog.
> > >>> 6: Temporarily pair the "get it" and "stay" commands. This way, the
> > >>> dog will paw the object and then stay there until you come over to
> > >>> pick it up. Release the dog from the stay only after you pick up the
> > >>> object. Eventually, you can drop "stay" and just say "get it".
> > >>> 7: Start practicing with a variety of different items.
> > >>>
> > >>> **In the initial stages, make sure to use something that is easy to
> > >>> hear when your dog's paw makes contact with it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Danielle and Thai
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 5/22/17, Rachel Grider via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>>> Hello, All:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Awhile ago, there was a discussion about teaching dogs to fetch, and
> > >>>> someone on this list (I don't remember who) talked about teaching a
> > >>>> guide dog how to find dropped items--not necessarily how to pick
> > >>>> them up, but just to find them by touching the item. I would like to
> > >>>> learn more about training my guide dog to do that. Does anyone have
> > >>>> information about this?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thank you!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Rachel
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> NAGDU mailing list
> > >>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >>>> for
> > >>>> NAGDU:
> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29
> %40gmail
> > >>>> .com
> > >>>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> NAGDU mailing list
> > >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >>> NAGDU:
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj40
> 2%40gmail
> > >>> .com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> NAGDU mailing list
> > >> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> NAGDU:
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rachel.
> grider%40gma
> > >> il.com
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NAGDU mailing list
> > > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > NAGDU:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%
> 40gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NAGDU mailing list
> > > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > NAGDU:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/
> > rachel.grider%40gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 14:59:41 -0500
> > From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> > Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Finding Dropped Items
> > Message-ID: <000001d2d723$c7be7260$573b5720$@gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > I have heard of a few people doing this, but it is hard to get kids to do
> > that. LOL. I think I would have been much happier if all of the dogs were
> > putting toys away. My ex-husband had a dog who when it wanted to go out
> > would go get the shoes that Chuck wore out into the yard, but I don't
> know
> > if it was just a fluke or something it did naturally and on a regular
> > basis.
> > I don't think he trained that into him. On this one I am thinking it
> would
> > be nice, but I might be too lazy to take it on. LOL. Let us know how it
> > goes.
> > Cindy Lou Ray
> > cindyray at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rachel Grider
> > via
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 2:46 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Finding Dropped Items
> >
> > That is a great point, Cindy. That is the reason that I will probably not
> > be
> > doing it with Demi--it isn't really necessary for my needs and would end
> up
> > being more of a novelty trick. The reason I am considering it is
> > because--and for those of you who have insight on this, please correct me
> > if
> > I'm wrong--I would really like to eventually teach Demi to put away her
> > toys, and I am pretty sure that teaching this starts with the dog being
> > able
> > to pick something up on command. At this point, I can say something like
> > "Go
> > get your (insert name of toy)," and she will usually do it, but if I have
> > her toy in front of her and say the same, she won't take it because she
> > doesn't understand why I would be asking her to get something that is
> > literally right there in front of her. If I tell her to "Bring it to me,"
> > she will either bring it close and drop it or try and throw or kick the
> > thing to me, but it is not consistent.<div
> > id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table
> style="border-top:
> > 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
> > <tr>
> > <td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
> > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&ut
> > m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > target="_blank"><img
> > src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-
> > tick-green-avg-v1.p
> > ng"
> > alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
> > /></a></td>
> > <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color:
> #41424e;
> > font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> > line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
> > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&ut
> > m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a>
> > </td>
> > </tr>
> > </table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
> > height="1"></a></div>
> >
> > On 5/27/17, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > > When I say this, it is not meant as a criticism of what
> > people do. I
> > > had a black lab, my second dog, who was just a masterful fetcher, and
> > > she would pick things up and drop them in my hand. Once she even took
> > > a cookie off a tray and I put my hand under her chin and said "out",
> > > and the cookie dropped into my hand. She was the only dog I had who
> > > would do this. I was disappointed that more of my dogs didn't fetch or
> > > find things. And oh yes, if she was playing with a toy and it went
> > > where she couldn't quite find it, she would go as close as she could
> > > and put her nose in the vicinity and whine. I think that was her
> > > anyway, though it could have been Spencer. Anyway, thing is, the dog
> > > is a guide. That is its primary purpose. I personally decided that
> > > having it do the fetching and finding things was nice but full
> > > unnecessary. Please remember that I appreciate why people want it, and
> > > I would be proud if I had a dog that did it, but it isn't important to
> > > me. The one thing that would be just too cool about it would be that I
> > > could say I trained the dog to do it.
> > >
> > > Cindy Lou Ray, Moderator
> > > cindyray at gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rachel
> > > Grider via NAGDU
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 1:53 PM
> > > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > > Cc: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Finding Dropped Items
> > >
> > > Thank you for this information! I started this a couple days ago using
> > > sort of a mixture between the two methods described. Demi picked it up
> > > very quickly. She has mastered putting her paw on a dropped item both
> > > in and out of harness. when working in harness, I would drop an object
> > > like my phone or credit card, then would drop the harness and say
> > > "find it," and Demi would put her paw on the item. We have only done
> > > this for practice at home so far.
> > >
> > > I am wondering, though, for those of you who actually have your dogs
> > > pick up items, how one would train a dog to pick something up on
> > > command? Demi will fetch, but that is only with her toys, and it seems
> > > like using clicker to teach a dog to pick up an object would be
> > > counterproductive because the dog expects a treat at the sound of the
> > > clicker. Does anyone have insight on this? I don't know if I even want
> > > to train Demi to pick up items; I definitely wouldn't want her doing
> > > it in harness, but it could be a useful skill to have for certain
> > > situations when off leash at home or in a hotel room...<div
> > > id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table
> > > style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
> > > <tr>
> > > <td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
> > > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=l
> > > ink&ut m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > > target="_blank"><img
> > > src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-av
> > > g-v1.p
> > > ng"
> > > alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
> > > /></a></td>
> > > <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color:
> #41424e;
> > > font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> > > line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
> > > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=l
> > > ink&ut m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > > target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a>
> > > </td>
> > > </tr>
> > > </table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
> > > height="1"></a></div>
> > >
> > > On 5/23/17, Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >> I taught this a bit different, basically just shaping natural
> > >> tendencies. I noticed that my dog would immediately go to something
> > >> out of place or new that he hadn't noticed before. I paired this
> > >> natural behavior with a phrase. I use, "find it". Then give praise
> > >> when he went to it. My dog does a nose target, which I found to work
> > >> just fine and so I continue to use that. He does not pick up random
> > >> objects, so that was not a worry for me.
> > >>
> > >> Later I set up situations with objects that I had placed in a known
> > >> location and then called him to find it. I used a lot of verbal
> > >> encouragement and praise. When he found the thing he got more
> > >> praise, pats and acknowledgement. I don't remember using clicker and
> > >> treats to teach this, but I may have at some point. I did try to
> > >> teach a retrieve at some point, but gave up because he absolutely
> > >> refused to pick up anything that he didn't recognize as his. We had
> > >> a lot of problems when he was a puppy with chewing up stuff, so I
> > >> spent a lot of time teaching him to only chew on his things. I guess
> > >> he took that to heart. Of course every dog is different and it is
> > >> quite possible that with more time I could have taught him a
> > >> retrieve. Finding things on the floor was really what I needed so I
> > >> stopped with just
> > > locating objects.
> > >>
> > >> I think Danielle's method would work also. is a lot more
> > >> methodical and systematic. I do try to have training plans and
> > >> teach things step by step, but then life happens and we end up using
> > >> the fly by the seat of your pants method.
> > >>
> > >> Oh, I should add the find it is something that I only use at home or
> > >> in a hotel room, out of harness and off leash. Monty will not find
> > >> objects on the floor when working in harness.
> > >>
> > >> Good luck!
> > >> Julie
> > >> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 5/22/2017 7:38 PM, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU wrote:
> > >>> I taught my dog how to find dropped items, by putting his paw on or
> > >>> near the object. Here's the outline of how I taught this, using the
> > >>> clicker.
> > >>>
> > >>> 1: Start with one object (I think I used an index card or some kind
> > >>> of paper/cardboard). Hold it in your hand, show it to the dog, and
> > >>> click and treat when the dog paws it. My dog tried nosing the
> > >>> object, mouthing it, and barking in frustration before he finally got
> > it.
> > >>> 2: Once your dog paws the object reliably, put the command to it, (I
> > >>> used "get it"). Make sure the dog reliably paws the object when you
> > >>> give the command.
> > >>> 3: Drop the object right in front of the dog from just a few inches
> > >>> off the ground. Tell the dog "get it", and click and treat for
> > >>> pawing the object.
> > >>> 4: Drop the object from higher off the ground, but still in front of
> > >>> the dog.
> > >>> 5: start dropping the object progressively further away from the dog.
> > >>> 6: Temporarily pair the "get it" and "stay" commands. This way, the
> > >>> dog will paw the object and then stay there until you come over to
> > >>> pick it up. Release the dog from the stay only after you pick up the
> > >>> object. Eventually, you can drop "stay" and just say "get it".
> > >>> 7: Start practicing with a variety of different items.
> > >>>
> > >>> **In the initial stages, make sure to use something that is easy to
> > >>> hear when your dog's paw makes contact with it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Danielle and Thai
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 5/22/17, Rachel Grider via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>>> Hello, All:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Awhile ago, there was a discussion about teaching dogs to fetch,
> > >>>> and someone on this list (I don't remember who) talked about
> > >>>> teaching a guide dog how to find dropped items--not necessarily how
> > >>>> to pick them up, but just to find them by touching the item. I
> > >>>> would like to learn more about training my guide dog to do that.
> > >>>> Does anyone have information about this?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thank you!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Rachel
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> NAGDU mailing list
> > >>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >>>> for
> > >>>> NAGDU:
> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmai
> > >>>> l
> > >>>> .com
> > >>>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> NAGDU mailing list
> > >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >>> for
> > >>> NAGDU:
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj402%40gmai
> > >>> l
> > >>> .com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> NAGDU mailing list
> > >> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> NAGDU:
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rachel.grider%40gm
> > >> a
> > >> il.com
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NAGDU mailing list
> > > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > NAGDU:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.co
> > > m
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NAGDU mailing list
> > > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > > NAGDU:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rachel.grider%40gma
> > > il.com
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NAGDU mailing list
> > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > NAGDU:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 19:28:56 -0500
> > From: Wayne & Harley <k9dad at k9di.org>
> > To: Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Finding Dropped Items
> > Message-ID: <601e01ac-232d-6788-a782-9ba49169144d at k9di.org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >
> > *Hello Cindy,
> > I didn't teach the retrieve with Harley D, and I regret it. However, I
> > could, if I wanted to, teach it to him. Harley D not learning to
> > retrieve, however, isn't his fault, it's mine, as his trainer. While not
> > part of actual guiding, per se, it is handy and more than a neat trick.
> > To my way of thinking anyway. Since it is something that I desire my
> > next Guide to do, an I will be the one drawing up his syllabus for his
> > own personal Guide Dog University, retrieving will be in that syllabus.
> > I suspect that Harley's successor will (pardon the pun) pick it up
> > quickly....
> > That, you see is the beauty of living in a free country. We are all free
> > to decide what is, and isn't important to each of us on an individual
> > basis.
> >
> > Your Mileage May Vary...
> >
> > Wayne And Harley D
> >
> > k9dad at k9di.org
> >
> > *n 5/27/2017 2:29 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU wrote:
> > > When I say this, it is not meant as a criticism of what
> > > people do. I had a black lab, my second dog, who was just a masterful
> > > fetcher, and she would pick things up and drop them in my hand. Once
> she
> > > even took a cookie off a tray and I put my hand under her chin and said
> > > "out", and the cookie dropped into my hand. She was the only dog I had
> > who
> > > would do this. I was disappointed that more of my dogs didn't fetch or
> > find
> > > things. And oh yes, if she was playing with a toy and it went where she
> > > couldn't quite find it, she would go as close as she could and put her
> > nose
> > > in the vicinity and whine. I think that was her anyway, though it could
> > have
> > > been Spencer. Anyway, thing is, the dog is a guide. That is its primary
> > > purpose. I personally decided that having it do the fetching and
> finding
> > > things was nice but full unnecessary. Please remember that I appreciate
> > why
> > > people want it, and I would be proud if I had a dog that did it, but it
> > > isn't important to me. The one thing that would be just too cool about
> it
> > > would be that I could say I trained the dog to do it.
> > >
> > > Cindy Lou Ray, Moderator
> > > cindyray at gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rachel
> > Grider via
> > > NAGDU
> > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 1:53 PM
> > > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > > Cc: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Finding Dropped Items
> > >
> > > Thank you for this information! I started this a couple days ago using
> > sort
> > > of a mixture between the two methods described. Demi picked it up very
> > > quickly. She has mastered putting her paw on a dropped item both in and
> > out
> > > of harness. when working in harness, I would drop an object like my
> > phone or
> > > credit card, then would drop the harness and say "find it," and Demi
> > would
> > > put her paw on the item. We have only done this for practice at home so
> > far.
> > >
> > > I am wondering, though, for those of you who actually have your dogs
> > pick up
> > > items, how one would train a dog to pick something up on command? Demi
> > will
> > > fetch, but that is only with her toys, and it seems like using clicker
> to
> > > teach a dog to pick up an object would be counterproductive because the
> > dog
> > > expects a treat at the sound of the clicker. Does anyone have insight
> on
> > > this? I don't know if I even want to train Demi to pick up items; I
> > > definitely wouldn't want her doing it in harness, but it could be a
> > useful
> > > skill to have for certain situations when off leash at home or in a
> hotel
> > > room...<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table
> > > style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;">
> > > <tr>
> > > <td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a
> > > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&ut
> > > m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > > target="_blank"><img
> > > src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-
> > tick-green-avg-v1.p
> > > ng"
> > > alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"
> > > /></a></td>
> > > <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color:
> #41424e;
> > > font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
> > > line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a
> > > href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=
> > email&utm_source=link&ut
> > > m_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail"
> > > target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a>
> > > </td>
> > > </tr>
> > > </table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1"
> > > height="1"></a></div>
> > >
> > > On 5/23/17, Julie Johnson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >> I taught this a bit different, basically just shaping natural
> > >> tendencies. I noticed that my dog would immediately go to something
> > >> out of place or new that he hadn't noticed before. I paired this
> > >> natural behavior with a phrase. I use, "find it". Then give praise
> > >> when he went to it. My dog does a nose target, which I found to work
> > >> just fine and so I continue to use that. He does not pick up random
> > >> objects, so that was not a worry for me.
> > >>
> > >> Later I set up situations with objects that I had placed in a known
> > >> location and then called him to find it. I used a lot of verbal
> > >> encouragement and praise. When he found the thing he got more praise,
> > >> pats and acknowledgement. I don't remember using clicker and treats
> > >> to teach this, but I may have at some point. I did try to teach a
> > >> retrieve at some point, but gave up because he absolutely refused to
> > >> pick up anything that he didn't recognize as his. We had a lot of
> > >> problems when he was a puppy with chewing up stuff, so I spent a lot
> > >> of time teaching him to only chew on his things. I guess he took that
> > >> to heart. Of course every dog is different and it is quite possible
> > >> that with more time I could have taught him a retrieve. Finding
> > >> things on the floor was really what I needed so I stopped with just
> > > locating objects.
> > >> I think Danielle's method would work also. is a lot more
> > >> methodical and systematic. I do try to have training plans and teach
> > >> things step by step, but then life happens and we end up using the fly
> > >> by the seat of your pants method.
> > >>
> > >> Oh, I should add the find it is something that I only use at home or
> > >> in a hotel room, out of harness and off leash. Monty will not find
> > >> objects on the floor when working in harness.
> > >>
> > >> Good luck!
> > >> Julie
> > >> http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 5/22/2017 7:38 PM, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU wrote:
> > >>> I taught my dog how to find dropped items, by putting his paw on or
> > >>> near the object. Here's the outline of how I taught this, using the
> > >>> clicker.
> > >>>
> > >>> 1: Start with one object (I think I used an index card or some kind
> > >>> of paper/cardboard). Hold it in your hand, show it to the dog, and
> > >>> click and treat when the dog paws it. My dog tried nosing the object,
> > >>> mouthing it, and barking in frustration before he finally got it.
> > >>> 2: Once your dog paws the object reliably, put the command to it, (I
> > >>> used "get it"). Make sure the dog reliably paws the object when you
> > >>> give the command.
> > >>> 3: Drop the object right in front of the dog from just a few inches
> > >>> off the ground. Tell the dog "get it", and click and treat for pawing
> > >>> the object.
> > >>> 4: Drop the object from higher off the ground, but still in front of
> > >>> the dog.
> > >>> 5: start dropping the object progressively further away from the dog.
> > >>> 6: Temporarily pair the "get it" and "stay" commands. This way, the
> > >>> dog will paw the object and then stay there until you come over to
> > >>> pick it up. Release the dog from the stay only after you pick up the
> > >>> object. Eventually, you can drop "stay" and just say "get it".
> > >>> 7: Start practicing with a variety of different items.
> > >>>
> > >>> **In the initial stages, make sure to use something that is easy to
> > >>> hear when your dog's paw makes contact with it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Danielle and Thai
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 5/22/17, Rachel Grider via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > >>>> Hello, All:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Awhile ago, there was a discussion about teaching dogs to fetch, and
> > >>>> someone on this list (I don't remember who) talked about teaching a
> > >>>> guide dog how to find dropped items--not necessarily how to pick
> > >>>> them up, but just to find them by touching the item. I would like to
> > >>>> learn more about training my guide dog to do that. Does anyone have
> > >>>> information about this?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thank you!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Rachel
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> NAGDU mailing list
> > >>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > >>>> for
> > >>>> NAGDU:
> > >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dsykora29
> %40gmail
> > >>>> .com
> > >>>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> NAGDU mailing list
> > >>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >>> NAGDU:
> > >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj40
> 2%40gmail
> > >>> .com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> NAGDU mailing list
> > >> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > >> NAGDU:
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rachel.
> grider%40gma
> > >> il.com
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NAGDU mailing list
> > > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > NAGDU:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%
> 40gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NAGDU mailing list
> > > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > NAGDU:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/k9dad%40k9di.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NAGDU mailing list
> > NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 146, Issue 34
> > **************************************
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://wolfsinger-lakota.blogspot.com/
> http://wolfsinger2-thegoldendragon.blogspot.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 20:10:37 -0600
> From: "Melissa R Green" <graduate56 at juno.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Dog cologne
> Message-ID: <B41419B18F404521A8500E8F900114FE at melissa>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
> reply-type=original
>
> I use a spray that is made by people that make the furminating products.
> Not sure how tropical spray would smell with the wet dog scent. Lol!
>
>
>
>
> Best,
> Melissa R. Green And Pj
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raul A. Gallegos via NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 10:38 AM
> To: NAGDU List
> Cc: Raul A. Gallegos
> Subject: [NAGDU] Dog cologne
>
> Hello all. I found this on Amazon while shopping for a grooming glove and
> it got me thinking, are dog colognes safe? What are people's views on
> using them in addition to daily grooming?
>
> Fresh 'n Clean Fresh 'n Clean? Cologne Spray Tropical Scent
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UKPW7Y2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_GZelzbYK3YDBE
>
>
> --
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Assistive Technology Trainer - RGA Tech Solutions
>
> Mobile: 832.554.7285 <(832)%20554-7285>
> Work: 832.639.4477 <(832)%20639-4477>
> Personal Email: raul at raulgallegos.com
> Work Email: training at rgats.com
>
> ?Any teacher that can be replaced with a computer, deserves to be.? ?
> David Thornburg
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 22:44:39 -0500
> From: "Charlene Ota" <caota4 at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] FW: old dog disease
> Message-ID: <026101d2d8f7$11eef380$35ccda80$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi, I thought I would share this on the list as none of us are immune from
> our dogs getting older and this could happen to someone else and I guess I
> hope this information will help prepare others.
>
>
>
> Last night, Irish was having a harder time than usual getting up to go out
> for his last time to relieve. Often, later in the evening, he?s sleepy now
> and slow and it?s a little harder to get up. He?s arthritic and is taking
> meds for pain now, but still is wanting to go with me in the mornings. He
> still works, but if I sense he?s not feeling able, I leave him home or if I
> know I will encounter vehicles that are hard to get into or steps or
> something, I?ll leave him home. He?s 12 years old now, but still in pretty
> good health other than his arthritis.
>
>
>
> Well, about 6:00 this morning he woke me and he was panting heavily and we
> got up to try to take him outside thinking he needed to go out. Well, he
> couldn?t get up at all and he was panting and kind of shaking and obviously
> in a whole lot of distress. We called friends to come help us and to make
> a long story short, 5 tearful people and a big black lab showed up at the
> emergency hospital expecting the worst, that this would be the day we would
> lose my precious boy! We waited while the vet examined him and then were
> called into an exam room for the news. The article that follows is a very
> good explanation of what happened to him and it?s something that he?s
> totally expected to recover from. I thought it?s best to just share the
> article as it?s a very good explanation, very much like what the vet told
> us. I just wanted to share it so others may be prepared and know that it?s
> not as devastating a situation as it appears. We went to visit Irish this
> evening, and he?s coming along but is still not able to get up at all but
> he?s eating now, and apparently eating very well, he?s got to keep up his
> lab reputation. It?s awlful to see your dog in this situation though, they
> have terrible anxiety probably due to being terribly dizzy and nauseated
> and from what the vet told me their eyes dart back and forth very rapidly.
> That was much better this evening. A friend and I will go tomorrow morning
> to transport him to our regular vet clinic for further care as the
> emergency hospital closes when the regular vet hospitals open again. It?s
> such a relief to know that it?s very likely that he will fully recover from
> this.
>
>
>
>
>
> Canine idiopathic vestibular disease, which is also sometimes called ?old
> dog disease? or ?old rolling dog syndrome,? can be very scary for pet
> parents. To the untrained eye, the symptoms may mimic serious, life
> threatening conditions such as stroke or a brain tumor.
>
>
>
> The good news is that this condition, which is described by veterinarians
> as fairly common, typically disappears in a matter of days.
>
>
>
> <http://www.vcahospitals.com/main> VCA Animal Hospitals define
> vestibular disease as a sudden, non-progressive disturbance of balance.
>
>
>
> ?Idiopathic refers to the fact that veterinarians can?t identify the
> source of the balance issue,? said Dr. Duffy Jones, DVM, a veterinarian
> with Peachtree Hills Animal Hospitals of Atlanta in Georgia. ?There are a
> lot of theories such as inflammation, but as with some humans who suffer
> from vertigo, we really don?t know the cause.?
>
>
>
> Dr. Keith Niesenbaum, DVM, a veterinarian with Crawford Dog and Cat
> Hospital in Garden City Park, New York, and who has been practicing for 32
> years, said that idiopathic vestibular disease is more common in older dogs
> and there really isn?t a breed that is immune.
>
>
>
> ?Anecdotally, I?ve seen it more in large breed dogs, but it can also
> happen with small breeds as well,? Niesenbaum said.
>
>
>
>
> Symptoms of Idiopathic Vestibular Disease
>
>
>
>
> Deb Hipp of Kansas City, Missouri, was preparing to go out of town for a
> few days when her 17-year-old dog, Toby, suddenly had more trouble than
> normal getting up.
>
>
>
> ?He has some mobility issues, so I thought he was just tired, so I waited
> another ten minutes and tried to get him up,? Hipp said. ?On the second
> attempt, he was having trouble placing his paws to stand and I immediately
> took him to the emergency vet.?
>
>
>
> Hipp thought Toby might have had a stroke, but the veterinarian made a
> note of Toby?s eyes, which were darting back and forth. After some blood
> tests and a more thorough exam, he diagnosed idiopathic vestibular disease.
> By that time, in addition to not being able to stand and the darting eyes,
> Toby also displayed other symptoms of the disease, which include:
>
> * Head tilt, which may be slight to extreme
>
> * Acting dizzy and falling down, which may remind people of
> someone who is drunk
>
> * Nausea and/or vomiting
>
> * Dogs may also turn in circles or roll
>
>
>
> ?The symptoms are acute, or immediate,? said Jones. ?The symptoms will not
> be a slow progression but happen all of a sudden. There really aren?t any
> symptoms that can be a sign this is coming on.?
>
>
>
>
> Medical Treatment for Idiopathic Vestibular Disease
>
>
>
>
> Jones said it is important to get your dog to its veterinarian as soon as
> you see any of the signs, as the symptoms are similar to that of other more
> serious conditions, such as an inner ear infection, stroke, brain tumor, or
> seizure.
>
>
>
> Jones said idiopathic vestibular disease is confirmed by a veterinarian
> upon a complete physical examination, such as checking the eye movement,
> which would be rolling in cases of a stroke, and lifting the paw and
> flipping it over to see if the dog puts his paw back. ?If the dog can flip
> his paw over, it typically isn?t a stroke,? said Jones.
>
>
>
> Niesenbaum said that once the condition is diagnosed, the dog is typically
> treated at home unless the dog is vomiting and is at risk of dehydration,
> at which point he will hospitalize the dog so it can be put on IV fluids.
>
>
>
> ?If the dog goes home, we will typically prescribe an anti-nausea
> medication and something to help with dizziness,? Niesenbaum said.
>
>
>
>
> Home Treatment for Idiopathic Vestibular Disease
>
>
>
>
> Jones said that dogs can eat, but due to the nausea, they may not want to
> eat. He added that it is important to watch for hydration issues. Other
> concerns include keeping the dog in a confined area, and not allowing them
> to climb stairs or be on the furniture.
>
>
>
> ?The dog will really be off balance and if there are stairs or he gets on
> the furniture, he may fall and break bones,? said Jones.
>
>
>
> Another consideration, especially if it is a large dog, is getting the dog
> outside to go to the bathroom. This was a big concern for Hipp, whose dog,
> Toby, weighs 60 pounds.
>
>
>
> ?Toby had mobility issues, so I had bought a special harness to help him
> up,? said Hipp. Still, when Toby was in the first days of idiopathic
> vestibular disease, he was dead weight, not being able to stand or walk at
> all.
>
>
>
> After conferring with her veterinarian, Hipp was advised to hospitalize
> Toby.
>
>
>
> ?I was leaving town and didn?t want to leave him with the pet sitter.
> Although we were convinced Toby would recover, I didn?t want her to have to
> pick him up and take him outside,? said Hipp.
>
>
>
> Niesenbaum said if you don?t have a harness, you can use a towel as sling
> to help your dog stand.
>
>
>
> The good news is that like most dogs with this condition, Toby completely
> recovered within a matter of days and now even goes on his daily short
> walk. ?It can sometimes take a couple of weeks, but if they?re not
> improving after 72 hours, we know it could be something more serious,? said
> Jones.
>
>
>
> Some dogs do not recover completely from the head tilt. Even if your dog
> has appeared to have completely recovered, it?s important for the dog?s
> veterinarian to see the dog again just to be sure.
>
>
>
> ?I don?t get to give a lot of good news to owners of geriatric dogs when
> they have serious conditions, but this really is the ?good news? condition
> in that most dogs will survive and recover completely,? Jones said.
>
>
>
>
>
> This article was verified for accuracy by Dr. Katie Grzyb, DVM.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 02:15:49 -0400
> From: Helga Schreiber <helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Nagdu meeting at National Convention
> Message-ID: <9AE42DF2-3D78-4D81-8623-F7311B165414 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi everyone! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, when teh Nagdu wil
> be meeting at National convention? I'm Just wondering since I'm perhaps
> planning to attend. I look forward in hearing form you soon. Thanks and God
> bless!
>
> Helga Schreiber
> Group Moderator
>
> for the IPad help for the Blind
> IPadhelpfortheblind+subscribe at groups.io
>
> Admin of World Wide Friends Text: If you want to chat and make new
> friends, feel free to join a WhatsApp group called World Wide Friends Text,
> where people with hearing lost and who are blind can freely communicate by
> text only!
> ?Open this link to join my WhatsApp Group: https://chat.whatsapp.com/5yDq
> xdAPgEJKAhFWlRh13D
>
>
>
> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of
> Blind Students.
> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
> Phone: (561) 706-5950
> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com
> Skype: helga.schreiber26
> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx
> INT Website: http://int4life.com/
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that
> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
> Sent from my iPhone 7 running IOS 10.1.1
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 07:57:18 +0000
> From: Nancy VanderBrink <vandyvanderbrink at outlook.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] FW: old dog disease
> Message-ID:
> <CY4PR10MB1432F5CB9641C61D7063C769CEF00 at CY4PR10MB1432.namprd
> 10.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thank you for this
>
> Please forgive the typos as this message was most likely generated using
> voice dictation
> Nancy Irwin
>
>
> > On May 29, 2017, at 11:45 PM, Charlene Ota via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I thought I would share this on the list as none of us are immune
> from our dogs getting older and this could happen to someone else and I
> guess I hope this information will help prepare others.
> >
> >
> >
> > Last night, Irish was having a harder time than usual getting up to go
> out for his last time to relieve. Often, later in the evening, he?s sleepy
> now and slow and it?s a little harder to get up. He?s arthritic and is
> taking meds for pain now, but still is wanting to go with me in the
> mornings. He still works, but if I sense he?s not feeling able, I leave him
> home or if I know I will encounter vehicles that are hard to get into or
> steps or something, I?ll leave him home. He?s 12 years old now, but still
> in pretty good health other than his arthritis.
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, about 6:00 this morning he woke me and he was panting heavily and
> we got up to try to take him outside thinking he needed to go out. Well, he
> couldn?t get up at all and he was panting and kind of shaking and obviously
> in a whole lot of distress. We called friends to come help us and to make
> a long story short, 5 tearful people and a big black lab showed up at the
> emergency hospital expecting the worst, that this would be the day we would
> lose my precious boy! We waited while the vet examined him and then were
> called into an exam room for the news. The article that follows is a very
> good explanation of what happened to him and it?s something that he?s
> totally expected to recover from. I thought it?s best to just share the
> article as it?s a very good explanation, very much like what the vet told
> us. I just wanted to share it so others may be prepared and know that it?s
> not as devastating a situation as it appears. We went to visit Irish this
> evening, and he?s coming along but is still not able to get up at all but
> he?s eating now, and apparently eating very well, he?s got to keep up his
> lab reputation. It?s awlful to see your dog in this situation though, they
> have terrible anxiety probably due to being terribly dizzy and nauseated
> and from what the vet told me their eyes dart back and forth very rapidly.
> That was much better this evening. A friend and I will go tomorrow morning
> to transport him to our regular vet clinic for further care as the
> emergency hospital closes when the regular vet hospitals open again. It?s
> such a relief to know that it?s very likely that he will fully recover from
> this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Canine idiopathic vestibular disease, which is also sometimes called
> ?old dog disease? or ?old rolling dog syndrome,? can be very scary for pet
> parents. To the untrained eye, the symptoms may mimic serious, life
> threatening conditions such as stroke or a brain tumor.
> >
> >
> >
> > The good news is that this condition, which is described by
> veterinarians as fairly common, typically disappears in a matter of days.
> >
> >
> >
> > <http://www.vcahospitals.com/main> VCA Animal Hospitals define
> vestibular disease as a sudden, non-progressive disturbance of balance.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?Idiopathic refers to the fact that veterinarians can?t identify the
> source of the balance issue,? said Dr. Duffy Jones, DVM, a veterinarian
> with Peachtree Hills Animal Hospitals of Atlanta in Georgia. ?There are a
> lot of theories such as inflammation, but as with some humans who suffer
> from vertigo, we really don?t know the cause.?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dr. Keith Niesenbaum, DVM, a veterinarian with Crawford Dog and Cat
> Hospital in Garden City Park, New York, and who has been practicing for 32
> years, said that idiopathic vestibular disease is more common in older dogs
> and there really isn?t a breed that is immune.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?Anecdotally, I?ve seen it more in large breed dogs, but it can also
> happen with small breeds as well,? Niesenbaum said.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Symptoms of Idiopathic Vestibular Disease
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Deb Hipp of Kansas City, Missouri, was preparing to go out of town for a
> few days when her 17-year-old dog, Toby, suddenly had more trouble than
> normal getting up.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?He has some mobility issues, so I thought he was just tired, so I
> waited another ten minutes and tried to get him up,? Hipp said. ?On the
> second attempt, he was having trouble placing his paws to stand and I
> immediately took him to the emergency vet.?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hipp thought Toby might have had a stroke, but the veterinarian made a
> note of Toby?s eyes, which were darting back and forth. After some blood
> tests and a more thorough exam, he diagnosed idiopathic vestibular disease.
> By that time, in addition to not being able to stand and the darting eyes,
> Toby also displayed other symptoms of the disease, which include:
> >
> > * Head tilt, which may be slight to extreme
> >
> > * Acting dizzy and falling down, which may remind people of
> someone who is drunk
> >
> > * Nausea and/or vomiting
> >
> > * Dogs may also turn in circles or roll
> >
> >
> >
> > ?The symptoms are acute, or immediate,? said Jones. ?The symptoms will
> not be a slow progression but happen all of a sudden. There really aren?t
> any symptoms that can be a sign this is coming on.?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Medical Treatment for Idiopathic Vestibular Disease
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jones said it is important to get your dog to its veterinarian as soon
> as you see any of the signs, as the symptoms are similar to that of other
> more serious conditions, such as an inner ear infection, stroke, brain
> tumor, or seizure.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jones said idiopathic vestibular disease is confirmed by a veterinarian
> upon a complete physical examination, such as checking the eye movement,
> which would be rolling in cases of a stroke, and lifting the paw and
> flipping it over to see if the dog puts his paw back. ?If the dog can flip
> his paw over, it typically isn?t a stroke,? said Jones.
> >
> >
> >
> > Niesenbaum said that once the condition is diagnosed, the dog is
> typically treated at home unless the dog is vomiting and is at risk of
> dehydration, at which point he will hospitalize the dog so it can be put on
> IV fluids.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?If the dog goes home, we will typically prescribe an anti-nausea
> medication and something to help with dizziness,? Niesenbaum said.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Home Treatment for Idiopathic Vestibular Disease
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jones said that dogs can eat, but due to the nausea, they may not want
> to eat. He added that it is important to watch for hydration issues. Other
> concerns include keeping the dog in a confined area, and not allowing them
> to climb stairs or be on the furniture.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?The dog will really be off balance and if there are stairs or he gets
> on the furniture, he may fall and break bones,? said Jones.
> >
> >
> >
> > Another consideration, especially if it is a large dog, is getting the
> dog outside to go to the bathroom. This was a big concern for Hipp, whose
> dog, Toby, weighs 60 pounds.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?Toby had mobility issues, so I had bought a special harness to help him
> up,? said Hipp. Still, when Toby was in the first days of idiopathic
> vestibular disease, he was dead weight, not being able to stand or walk at
> all.
> >
> >
> >
> > After conferring with her veterinarian, Hipp was advised to hospitalize
> Toby.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?I was leaving town and didn?t want to leave him with the pet sitter.
> Although we were convinced Toby would recover, I didn?t want her to have to
> pick him up and take him outside,? said Hipp.
> >
> >
> >
> > Niesenbaum said if you don?t have a harness, you can use a towel as
> sling to help your dog stand.
> >
> >
> >
> > The good news is that like most dogs with this condition, Toby
> completely recovered within a matter of days and now even goes on his daily
> short walk. ?It can sometimes take a couple of weeks, but if they?re not
> improving after 72 hours, we know it could be something more serious,? said
> Jones.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some dogs do not recover completely from the head tilt. Even if your dog
> has appeared to have completely recovered, it?s important for the dog?s
> veterinarian to see the dog again just to be sure.
> >
> >
> >
> > ?I don?t get to give a lot of good news to owners of geriatric dogs when
> they have serious conditions, but this really is the ?good news? condition
> in that most dogs will survive and recover completely,? Jones said.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This article was verified for accuracy by Dr. Katie Grzyb, DVM.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 146, Issue 35
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