[NAGDU] Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.

Wed Jun 14 15:44:15 UTC 2017

Okay... but let's face it. Emotional support animals aren't going
anywhere. Our society is too politically correct, too sensitive to the
needs of people, that I just don't see a ban taking shape. In that
reality, there needs to be a better means of separating the authentic
from the fake, because like it or not, genuine service animals will be
lumped with all the bad examples companies experience. It's not fair,
but it's where we seem to be heading as evidenced by what feels like
an uptick in negative airline interactions, not just between airlines
and persons with disabilities but airlines and the general public. The
idea of mandating documentation may not be the best option, but I
would hardly call it infringement on human rights if we went that
route. Whether or not a dog is properly trained is a matter of debate,
and that applies as much to owner-trained guide dogs as emotional
support animals.

Joe

On 6/14/17, Heather Bird via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 	Agreed. I will never ever comply with documentation requests even if they
> go into law. I am not having my human rights, including the right to freedom
> of movement restricted because a bunch of people want to bring their
> untrained animals onto airplanes. Nope, not happening. Ban the ESAs and
> leave the service dogs alone. I will never, ever show my Seeing Eye ID, out
> of respect for owner trainers like my husband and some of those right here
> on list. I also will not show my ID out of respect for those with invisible
> disabilities, many of whom are veterans of are military. Just get rid of
> this emotional support animal crapola. Simple solution that does not
> infringe on your or my rights as service dog handlers.
>
> Heather Bird
> "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't
> a Communist.
> Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I
> wasn't a trade unionist.
> Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
> Protestant.
> Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." -
> Martin Niemöller
> In our diverse society we must never fail to speak up in the face of Human
> Rights violations lest we be the next targets of such violations.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 9:29 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.
>
> Hi Joe.
> I see an alternative.  Don't allow emotional support animals on board
> airlines.  They're not trained.  They're not service animals.
> Simple as that.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 9:07 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Joe Orozco
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.
>
> I don't know that it really matters whether or not Heather can produce
> specific reports pertaining to Delta. I think we can all agree too many
> airlines have not properly trained their employees on dealing with
> accommodating service animals. To be fair, their job is complicated by the
> proliferation of emotional support animals for which there is too often
> little in the way of registration or validated training. This is in part why
> I am in favor of all handlers being required to produce documentation
> proving the animal's adequacy to be allowed in public spaces, including the
> tight confines of an aircraft. I don't much care for additional government
> regulation, but I can't see a feasible alternative that both upholds rights
> and protects the public.
>
> Best,
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 6/14/17, David via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I, too, share your involvement with several other listservs.  I have
>> searched and found no guide dog access issue reports involving Delta.
>> Would you mind sending references to a couple? or sharing the report
>> you filed on what happened to you on Delta?
>>
>> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* *david at bakerinet.com
>>
>> *
>> On 6/14/2017 7:49 AM, Heather Bird via NAGDU wrote:
>>> 	I am speaking generally based on all of the articles I come across
>>> regarding access issues from the various airlines. There are some
>>> that seem to have more than Delta, American Airlines for instance,
>>> and some that are relatively good, that have very few, South West for
>>> instance. Delta is not the worst, but they do have quite a fair
>>> percentage. One thing we have to bear in mind in order to be fair is
>>> the size of the airline as well. Delta is pretty big and well-known.
>>> If a really big airline has 10 articles about access issues that I
>>> come across in the year, this might be the same thing as a very small
>>> airline having two incidents in that same year. I have had minor
>>> incidents on Delta and once on Jet Blue. I am on this NAGDU list,
>>> plus the Seeing Eye mailing list and the GDUI list, and in the past I
>>> have been on mailing lists for other schools from which I have dogs.
>>> Also, Jim and I have no lives and we often search google and or
>>> YouTube for access issues, so we see a large number of media stories
>>> regarding access issues, including those on airlines. I have not made
>>> out graphs and charts and plotted every single incident in a
>>> scientific method to see which airlines are the worst offenders. I
>>> just know that I have seen a goodly number over the years, from
>>> Delta, especially with non guide dog service dogs. Jim had a run-in
>>> with Delta that was moderately bad, although most of his run-ins have
>>> been with airport personally. I hope that helps to clarify.
>>>
>>> Heather Bird
>>> "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I
>>> wasn't a Communist.
>>> Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a
>>> Jew.
>>> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because
>>> I wasn't a trade unionist.
>>> Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was
>>> a Protestant.
>>> Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
>>> - Martin Niemöller In our diverse society we must never fail to speak
>>> up in the face of Human Rights violations lest we be the next targets
>>> of such violations.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 10:12 PM
>>> To: Heather Bird via NAGDU
>>> Cc: David
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.
>>>
>>> I have had wonderful treatment on my Delta flights and I am unaware
>>> of Delta offenses related to service dog use.
>>>
>>> Could you provide further explanation regarding this comment, or the
>>> reason you made it, Heather?
>>>
>>> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* *david at bakerinet.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>> On 6/13/2017 9:34 PM, Heather Bird via NAGDU wrote:
>>>> Delta is already one of the worst offenders for access issues
>>>> related to
>>> service dog use.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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