[NAGDU] Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.

Wed Jun 14 18:33:28 UTC 2017

My incident with Delta was minor, so I addressed it with the flight crew. They wanted me to sit on the isle, and I explained that sitting by a window allows me to keep my dog out of the space of other passengers and to give my dog a nice den like space against the wall of the plane. They told me that they couldn't do that because the sighted people had a right to enjoy the view. I told them that this was absolutely ridiculous. We had some words, then the supervisor came to talk to me and once he understood what was going on he told the flight attendants off and told me I could have a window seat. We handled Jim's issue via telephone calls and emails and got an apology related to his incident.

I count reports by service dog handlers other than guide dog handlers, so there's also my involvement with IAADP and some lists for handlers of other dogs. I know I've heard and read many accounts related to Delta, but perhaps the majority were with other types of service dogs. I also count accounts by trusted individuals, even if the news coverage is minimal. I do not count stories from random people I don't know well, because anyone can say anything. For instance, I know a handler of a medical alert dog who I have known for several years. She was on a Delta flight and her dog was on the floor at her feet. He is a sheltie, and pretty small, about 15 lb. Usually she insists that he sit on the floor as a proper service dog, but they were on a small puddle jumper plane that was much louder than your standard larger plane. Even before they started to take off, when they were just taxying, it was so loud and the floor rumbling so badly that her dog was standing up and looking at her and wining a little bit. She put him on her lap, with his leash and vest on, and he laid down right away. He was not in the seat space of any other passengers, not barking, growling or snapping, just lying there calmly. A flight attendant told her "Hey, where did that dog come from? You need him in a carrier under the seat in front of you." She calmly explained that this was a service dog, and that the floor was extremely loud and the vibrations very strong due to the type of aircraft. The person said "I need a letter from a doctor, and you still need a crate." She explained that this was not an ESA, that it was a service dog, and that she was not going to put him in a crate, as she did not have one, and was not going to put him on the floor with or without a crate. The flight attendant accused her of sneaking the dog onto the plane. She said something along the lines of "I'm sorry that he was so well behaved that you didn't notice him getting on, but he is a service dog and I do not have to show you anything and please leave us alone." The flight attendant threw such a fit that the plane had to be brought back to the gate and was delayed. The flight attendant kept telling the passengers that someone had a fake service dog on board and that they were trying to deal with the problem. They made statements about how service dogs are not little ankle biters. They were delayed for over 30 minutes. They eventually took off and the rest of the flight crew were fine. The other attendant stayed away from her, I suspect that they got told off, but all of the passengers kept looking at her and making comments. So, medical alert for what? Seizures, and, guess what? She had a seizure on the flight. When? About 5 minutes before landing, which means that had they not hassled her and delayed by 30 minutes, she would have been deplaned at her destination and with her friend who was picking her up. So, as a direct result of their actions, she wound up having a seizure in front of lots of judgmental people. Her dog alerted her by licking her face and wining, and someone complained that the dog was not being serious, trying to play. She took a medication that lessens the seizures, but can't entirely stop them. She started to Seize and her dog sat on her lap and laid on her chest. Her arm started to flail and shake, so the dog got down onto her lap and grabbed her sleeve and pulled her arm into the woman's lap then laid their whole body on her arm, which kept it still. It lasted about five minutes and once she came out of it the attendant from the beginning was there saying "Ma'am you aren't holding your dog's leash, you need to control your animal right now and stop playing with it." Her hand was not on the leash, but she had secured the hand loop of the leash to her belt, which is what she does during a seizure, so she had control of the dog. So, yeah, pretty bad. I remember that one as being Delta off the top of my head, but I'd have to go through tons of list archives and repeat my google searches to get you more specifics. Many incidents are not reported to the DOJ or other authorities because the person works it out with the airline. For instance, the one employee was absolutely nasty, but the airline's response was reasonable, and they made that actual individual apologize to her in person at her destination once the crew had deplaned, so that wasn't in any paper and as it wasn't a guide dog I didn't see it on TSE or GDUI. I wasn't on NAGDU at the time, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been over here either. A lot of veterans with psych dogs complain about American Airlines, Delta and United, saying that these three are the ones to avoid, using the Acronym DUAAL for Delta United American Airlines and saying if you take one of those prepair for a dual. Play on words, but easy to remember.  I personally have only had good experiences with United, but that doesn't mean that other people aren't having negative experiences. The issue is not Delta though. This incident could have happened on any airline because of the craptastic wording of the ACA. What I was saying when I mentioned Delta is that I know they are already one of the airlines with a lot of handlers of service dogs having issues, so it is ashamed to add any more fuel to the fire in general and specifically to the Delta fire in particular. I do think I can safely say that every single airline has had at least a few access issues, and also that every single airline has had some good experiences for service dog handlers. Every handler, dog, team, flight crew and airline is different, so there is going to be variation across the board.

Heather Bird
"They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." - Martin Niemöller
In our diverse society we must never fail to speak up in the face of Human Rights violations lest we be the next targets of such violations.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 8:11 AM
To: Heather Bird via NAGDU
Cc: David
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.

I, too, share your involvement with several other listservs.  I have searched and found no guide dog access issue reports involving Delta.  
Would you mind sending references to a couple? or sharing the report you filed on what happened to you on Delta?

*David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* *david at bakerinet.com

*
On 6/14/2017 7:49 AM, Heather Bird via NAGDU wrote:
> 	I am speaking generally based on all of the articles I come across 
> regarding access issues from the various airlines. There are some that 
> seem to have more than Delta, American Airlines for instance, and some 
> that are relatively good, that have very few, South West for instance. 
> Delta is not the worst, but they do have quite a fair percentage. One 
> thing we have to bear in mind in order to be fair is the size of the 
> airline as well. Delta is pretty big and well-known. If a really big 
> airline has 10 articles about access issues that I come across in the 
> year, this might be the same thing as a very small airline having two 
> incidents in that same year. I have had minor incidents on Delta and 
> once on Jet Blue. I am on this NAGDU list, plus the Seeing Eye mailing 
> list and the GDUI list, and in the past I have been on mailing lists 
> for other schools from which I have dogs. Also, Jim and I have no 
> lives and we often search google and or YouTube for access issues, so 
> we see a large number of media stories regarding access issues, 
> including those on airlines. I have not made out graphs and charts and 
> plotted every single incident in a scientific method to see which 
> airlines are the worst offenders. I just know that I have seen a 
> goodly number over the years, from Delta, especially with non guide 
> dog service dogs. Jim had a run-in with Delta that was moderately bad, although most of his run-ins have been with airport personally. I hope that helps to clarify.
>
> Heather Bird
> "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I 
> wasn't a Communist.
> Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because 
> I wasn't a trade unionist.
> Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was 
> a Protestant.
> Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." 
> - Martin Niemöller In our diverse society we must never fail to speak 
> up in the face of Human Rights violations lest we be the next targets 
> of such violations.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 10:12 PM
> To: Heather Bird via NAGDU
> Cc: David
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.
>
> I have had wonderful treatment on my Delta flights and I am unaware of 
> Delta offenses related to service dog use.
>
> Could you provide further explanation regarding this comment, or the 
> reason you made it, Heather?
>
> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* *david at bakerinet.com
>
>
> *
> On 6/13/2017 9:34 PM, Heather Bird via NAGDU wrote:
>> Delta is already one of the worst offenders for access issues related 
>> to
> service dog use.
>
>
>
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Heather Bird
"They came first for the Communists, and I didn't spreak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." - Martin Niemöller
In our diverse society we must never fail to speak up in the face of Human Rights violations lest we be the next targets of such violations.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 8:11 AM
To: Heather Bird via NAGDU
Cc: David
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.

I, too, share your involvement with several other listservs.  I have searched and found no guide dog access issue reports involving Delta.  
Would you mind sending references to a couple? or sharing the report you filed on what happened to you on Delta?

*David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* *david at bakerinet.com

*
On 6/14/2017 7:49 AM, Heather Bird via NAGDU wrote:
> 	I am speaking generally based on all of the articles I come across 
> regarding access issues from the various airlines. There are some that 
> seem to have more than Delta, American Airlines for instance, and some 
> that are relatively good, that have very few, South West for instance. 
> Delta is not the worst, but they do have quite a fair percentage. One 
> thing we have to bear in mind in order to be fair is the size of the 
> airline as well. Delta is pretty big and well-known. If a really big 
> airline has 10 articles about access issues that I come across in the 
> year, this might be the same thing as a very small airline having two 
> incidents in that same year. I have had minor incidents on Delta and 
> once on Jet Blue. I am on this NAGDU list, plus the Seeing Eye mailing 
> list and the GDUI list, and in the past I have been on mailing lists 
> for other schools from which I have dogs. Also, Jim and I have no 
> lives and we often search google and or YouTube for access issues, so 
> we see a large number of media stories regarding access issues, 
> including those on airlines. I have not made out graphs and charts and 
> plotted every single incident in a scientific method to see which 
> airlines are the worst offenders. I just know that I have seen a 
> goodly number over the years, from Delta, especially with non guide 
> dog service dogs. Jim had a run-in with Delta that was moderately bad, although most of his run-ins have been with airport personally. I hope that helps to clarify.
>
> Heather Bird
> "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I 
> wasn't a Communist.
> Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because 
> I wasn't a trade unionist.
> Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was 
> a Protestant.
> Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." 
> - Martin Niemöller In our diverse society we must never fail to speak 
> up in the face of Human Rights violations lest we be the next targets 
> of such violations.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via 
> NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 10:12 PM
> To: Heather Bird via NAGDU
> Cc: David
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.
>
> I have had wonderful treatment on my Delta flights and I am unaware of 
> Delta offenses related to service dog use.
>
> Could you provide further explanation regarding this comment, or the 
> reason you made it, Heather?
>
> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL* *david at bakerinet.com
>
>
> *
> On 6/13/2017 9:34 PM, Heather Bird via NAGDU wrote:
>> Delta is already one of the worst offenders for access issues related 
>> to
> service dog use.
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/heather.l.bird%40gm
> ail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/david%40bakerinet.c
> om

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