[NAGDU] This is why I love this list, was Accountability for comments was: Emotional Support Dog attack on delta.

Wed Jun 14 20:49:59 UTC 2017

Totally agree with you Heather about this list.  I have seen it personally where people were thrown out of other lists just for agreeing or disagreeing with someone. It is intersting because Delta has been the one airline that has been the most problematic for me with all my dogs, but I still generally think they are a pretty good airline most of the time.  The two airlines I have never had trouble with dog wise are American and Southwest.
Jordan 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 14, 2017, at 2:17 PM, Heather Bird via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello. First of all. Joe, thanks for standing up for me, as it were. Dave,
> absolutely no apologies necessary. We are discussing, debating, asking
> questions, giving and seeking clarification, and that is how discussion is
> supposed to work, no? I absolutely have no problem with someone seeking
> clarification of something I've said. It could be that I say something
> incorrect, in which case I would like to get the correct information, and
> more importantly, if someone on list ever says something that is incorrect,
> than it is important that someone set them strait on the list, so that we
> don't walk away with wrong information. If I say something that is right,
> but it is misunderstood, then I have no problem clarifying. If I say
> something that is right for me, but not right or accurate for someone else,
> then sharing both sets of experiences is valuable to everyone on list.
> 
> I love this list. On some lists I am on, one of two things would have
> happened, either A. the moderator fearing discord would have freaked out,
> panicked and said "Discussion closed, absolutely no more talking about this
> what so ever." Or, B. the person disagreeing with or questioning the other
> would have gotten nasty and attacking and the list would have spiraled into
> chaos. I feel that I have been very respectful in my communications, and
> that both Joe and Dave have been equally respectful. So, yeah, this is why I
> love this list. I see value in some of the other lists I am on, but the
> drama is supremely irritating, so it is refreshing to belong to this list
> where discussions are lively, but no one is getting nasty with anyone, or
> being sickeningly sweet and politically correct either.
> 
> Hooray! Go NAGDU List!
>    
> Heather Bird
> "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't
> a Communist.
> Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I
> wasn't a trade unionist.
> Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
> Protestant.
> Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." -
> Martin Niemöller
> In our diverse society we must never fail to speak up in the face of Human
> Rights violations lest we be the next targets of such violations.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 12:14 PM
> To: Joe Orozco via NAGDU
> Cc: David
> Subject: [NAGDU] Accountability for comments was: Emotional Support Dog
> attack on delta.
> 
> Well, Joe, as a colleague of mine used to say before disagreeing with me, I
> don't necessarily disagree with you, but ...
> 
> As members of a guide dog handlers' group, we count on each other to inform
> us about the world out there, particularly as it affects us and our pups.
> I, too, would be very surprised, given the millions of passengers served and
> their thousands of employees, that any airline could not be called out for
> instances of egregious negative staff behavior toward handlers.  On the
> other hand, the statement: "Delta is already one of the worst offenders for
> access issues related to service dog use" is so far away from my experience
> with Delta that it caught my attention.  After doing some initial research
> of my own on the internet, I was not able to find any "Delta offenses for
> access issues".  Frankly, this surprised me.  I'm not saying that they
> aren't there, or that members of NAGDU or my other listservs haven't
> experienced bad treatment on Delta.  It is just in stark contrast to them
> being "one of the worst offenders".
> 
> I enjoy Heather's posts, the time she puts into them, and their analytical
> rigor, but her explanation that she has "had minor incidents on Delta*"
> *doesn't help inform me about the world out there.  Heather has no
> obligation to do so, and I should have written a private note back to her,
> rather than putting her in a defensive position in front of others.  I
> apologize for doing so. I'm sorry Heather.
> 
> On the other hand, Joe, I believe what we say to each other about the world
> out there does matter.  When what we are saying strongly conflicts with
> someone's experience, then I think we do owe each other support for our own
> opinions, examples of our experience, or source of our knowledge.
> 
> *David and Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL*
> 
> *david at bakerinet.com
> 
> *
>> On 6/14/2017 9:07 AM, Joe Orozco via NAGDU wrote:
>> I don't know that it really matters whether or not Heather can produce
> specific reports pertaining to Delta.
> 
> 
> 
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