[NAGDU] how to find the best bet?

Tue Jun 20 14:13:45 UTC 2017

Your school may have a hand-out to this effect. At Seeing Eye there was a
whole lecture on how to select a good veterinarian, including good questions
to ask, and also a vet lecture on the USB thumb drive we were given that
contained many articles, hand-outs and lectures. So, asking your school is a
start. I personally recommend asking things like:

1. Are you willing and able to test for tiders instead of just vaccinating
the dog if this is allowed under the state laws?
2. While I understand that many pet dog owners may make their dogs more
anxious during an exam or a minor procedure, this is an extremely valuable
working dog, and short of a full-out surgery, I must be in the room with my
dog even if you typically have a vet tech take the dog out of the room for
nail clipping, vaccinations, examinations, etc. Can you accommodate that?
3. Do you regularly treat any dogs who have very rigorous, active lives,
such as sled dogs, herding dogs, dogs active in agility trials or schutzhund
events?
4. Do you have any experience in treating service dogs? If so, how do you
find that their needs, in your experience, differ from those of pet dogs? If
not service dogs, then what about other working dogs such as police dogs,
explosive or drug detection dogs, search and rescue dogs, etc.?
5. What special interests or expertise do your practice's veterinarians
have? Such as, raw feeding, acupuncture, holistic medicine, canine s
medicine, etc.?
6. If a pet dog becomes sick or gets injured it is doubtless uncomfortable
for the dog and worrying for the owner. If my dog becomes sick or injured it
literally means that I cannot get where I need to go and my mobility is
adversely impacted. Given the special nature of the working relationship of
myself and my guide, what can you do to accommodate this unique situation in
terms of scheduling appointments other than routine check-ups?

You are looking for a vet or vet practice that sees your guide as more than
a pet. If they don't see your dog as anything more than a pet dog what
happens to wear a harness, then you don't want that vet. If Fido has
diarrhea, then their owner might have a mess to clean up at home. If your
dog has diarrhea it could harm your future public access and that of the
rest of us, if your dog, through no fault of yours or of their own has
accidents in public places. If Fido strains their leg then they can take it
easy and rest for a few days. Juno on the other hand must have immediate
assessment to ensure that it is not something serious that could end their
working career if not addressed, and to get the professional opinion of a
vet of exactly how long, minimum, the injury must rest before the dog
returns to work, so that you lose as little use of your dog as possible,
while also preserving and protecting the health and function of your dog.
You are looking for a vet who will make exceptions to all or most of their
usual policies to accommodate your unique handler/guide partnership. For
instance, my vet tech asked "Oh, we forgot to get a weight, would you like
me to go get that done for you?" When I said "No, I'll take her to the
scale, where is it?" She didn't bat an eye. She didn't condescend to me or
insist on doing it for me. Nor did she try to give my dog commands, touch
the leash or position my dog on the scale, she just let me do my thing.
Along the lines of a vet recognizing the specialness of your dog compared to
the general pet population, my vet special ordered the canine influenza
vaccine, not readily available in our area, to protect Ilsa since we will be
traveling to Orlando where a large outbreak of this disease has killed
several dogs, some of them young, healthy dogs, not just puppies and elderly
or ill dogs. She tracked some down, ordered it in and worked it out with me
to ensure that I was put into the schedule to get the initial vaccine and
the booster prior to my departure for National Convention, even if that
meant juggling around some pet dog appointments. I am not saying that pet
dogs are worthless. They are living breathing creatures just like our
guides, but while both our guides and the pets are living beings with
feelings, ours are also furry medical equipment. I am not saying that the
needs of pet owners should be ignored, but I am saying that the handler of a
working dog has a closer bond and a far deeper understanding of their dog
than a pet dog owner, in 98 percent of cases. I am not saying that if Ilsa
needs a vaccine and a pet dog has been hit by a car that Ilsa should be seen
first. I am saying that if Ilsa and a pet dog have both been hit by a car
and are in the exact same level of pain and danger of death, that Ilsa
should absolutely be seen first. I am saying that if Ilsa and a pet dog both
need routine visits, that I should be given priority in being seen. This is
also true of dogs serving the public. If a police dog is shot and a random
pet dog is shot and they have the same exact critical need, the police dog
needs to be seen first. That is only morally right. Also, morally, there is
a huge difference, at least on the human end between a guide dog who has
been struck by a speeding drunk driver during a street crossing while trying
to perform a traffic check for their handler, and a pet dog allowed
off-leash repeatedly in an unfenced area by an owner who should know better.
This preferential treatment will look different at different practices. Here
are some examples. If your vet does not normally make house calls, they
might do this for you and your guide when it is time to put your dog to
sleep. If your vet does not routinely have evening or weekend hours, they
might give you an appointment in the evening or during the weekend for an
urgent need. Your vet might take you into a room to wait, away from ill or
misbehaving pet dogs. If your vet does not provide emergency care they might
come to or telephone the emergency veterinarian at the ER vet to help ensure
that your dog is getting the best care. If your vet does not usually provide
care on credit even for urgently needed care, they might be willing to set
up a payment plan just for you, as long as you keep your mouth shut and
don't spread that fact around. Your vet might routinely insist on breeds
like German Shepherds, Dobermans, etc. wearing muzzles during some
procedures, but they will not require your guide to do so. Your vet might
insist that dogs be kept overnight after a surgery, even though no one will
even be in the building at the time, but they will allow you to take your
guide home afterword's. Your vet might agree to use local rather than
general anesthetic for a procedure on your dog... And so on and so forward.
How a particular vet will demonstrate their commitment to the team will vary
but there needs to be some little extra consideration there. If there is
not, then find another vet.

I have two tests for a good vet.
A. take your dog at a healthy weight right after you get home from your
training program and ask the vet what they think of your dog. If they tell
you that your dog is malnourished, too skinny, or way too thin, then get
another vet. The vets in our country are so used to seeing chronically obese
dogs that they view healthy dogs as under-weight. Trust me, dogs were meant
to work, to exercise, to walk many, many miles a day, to sleep hard and to
play hard, but not to lay around on the couch. Even dogs who aren't
overweight by the number on the scale are low in muscle tone, and unhealthy.
It is the guide dog schools, the police dog training programs, the mushers,
the sheep herders who still use sheep dogs, the handlers of active search
and rescue dogs who know what dogs should really look like. When I got
Frieda she weighed around 65 lb. I kept her at a good healthy weight the
whole time I had her. As she got older and slowed down and also fearful and
I had to limit her work in some environments she put on a few pounds, and I
mean a few, as in I brought her back to the Seeing Eye at 68 lb. In the vet
visits prior to retiring her I asked the vet about her general health and I
was told "She is really underweight, she needs about another 10 lb. on her
at least." I told them "That's crap, she is a good weight, I was asking you
about the movements of her joints, the coat quality, how her eyes and ears
look. I know her weight is fine." They told me I needed to feed her more.
She was already eating 3.5 cups of a really high quality high fat, high
protein, grain free food, and I was not going to up that. I knew they were
full of crap, but the vet at the Seeing Eye confirmed it. I asked her "Dr.
Holly, how was Frieda's weight? Because I think her weight is good, or
perhaps she should lose one or two lb." and she said "Yeah, she's pretty
good, we'd like to see her just a few pounds lighter, but she looks really
good." I'm sorry, local vet, but the head veterinarian at the oldest guide
dog training program in the country knows way more about healthy working
dogs than you. My new vet that I found for Ilsa is great. Ilsa's profile
that we get a week or so into class said that she was 59 lb. I felt her and
said "Walt, she's not 59, maybe 55 or 56, but seriously I think we need to
up her food." She had been getting 3 cups of Ucanuba per day. Walt instead
of telling me to shut up and do what I was told, bent down and felt her and
took a good look and said something along the lines of "Yeah, she's not
dangerously thin, but she is a little under, go ahead and up her food by one
cup." At TSE we have vittle vaults in our rooms and we are trusted to
measure and dish up our own dog's food every morning and afternoon. I 	had
upped her food for at least a week by the time we went for our in-class vet
visit. She was 57 lb. and I said "I knew it, I knew she wasn't 59." She had
probably put on 1 or 2 lb. with the food increase, which means that when I
guessed 55 or 56 I was probably within 1 lb. of her actual weight. So, When
I brought her home she was 57 lb. I took her to my previous vet and they
said "Oh my god, this dog is dangerously thin, you need to put her on a
better food right away and give her more of it." That was the last straw. I
told them to take a hike. That is why for this test to be effective you must
do it right after getting home, or with your trainer during home training.
If you can say "Look, it is Friday and I stepped off of the airplane
returning from insert name of school, on Wednesday evening, and the
professional, experienced and expert vets at the guide dog school think this
is a healthy weight, then you obviously have no idea what you are talking
about, thanks, but no thanks." So, my new vet? They are great. I brought
Ilsa in last week and she was 53 lb. The vet and I spoke and she asked me
what I thought of the weight. I told her "I'm not super concerned because
she is eating 5 cups of a high quality grain free food a day and she is
vigorous and active. I would like to see her put on about 2 to 4 lb., but
I'm only mildly concerned. We walk 6 or more miles a day and she plays hard
when she plays in the backyard with me as well." Did she freak out? Did she
call the Seeing Eye in hysterics? Did she lecture me about neglecting my
dog? No, she asked me detailed information about the food I feed and brought
up the ingredient its list for the food online during the visit, and
approved of it, asked me about the length, intensity and frequency of Ilsa's
exercise and said "I agree, I'd like her to be between 55 and 59, but her
coat is healthy, not brittle and dry, her muscles are developed well, she
looks bright eyed and bushy tailed. I do want you to give her a mixture of
half and half canned organic pumpkin and cooked organic sweet potato with a
table spoon of fat, preferably bacon fat or coconut oil, until and unless
her work load decreases, and let's weigh her again in a month." This is the
difference between a good vet and a crappy one. So, that is test one.

Test two. If you ask that a note be put in your dog's file that they are a
guide dog, service dog, working dog, Seeing Eye dog, whatever fits your dog
and your preferences, and you ask the vet to please not refer to your dog as
a pet, do they comply. They will slip up sometimes, but you want them
thinking of your dog as different and special and their words should reflect
this. So, if your dog has been a patient for several months and you keep
getting asked to "Please not feed your pet the morning of the visit." Or
"Now, how old is your pet?" Then you may wish to consider switching vets.
Obviously how your vet rises or fails to rise to the occasion in an
emergency is far more important than whether they call your guide a pet or
how they view your dog's weight, but you don't want to wait until there is
an emergency to find out how knowledgeable, professional, accommodating and
understanding your vet is. So, these two tests, plus the answers to
questions like the ones above will help you make an educated guess about how
a particular vet will meet your needs during a serious situation. Oh, one
more thing...

You do not want to be fighting with your vet. If you have something
particular that your do that is not mainstream, then find an informed and
supportive vet. For instance, if you want to feed raw, only do it if you are
going to do so responsibly. This means finding a vet who knows about raw
feeding who supports you. For one thing you need and want trust, and if you
have to lie to your vet and say that you feed kibble, this is not healthy or
safe. If your vet opposes raw feeding then they might fail to see a health
concern because they blame any problems on the raw diet instead of
investigating. So, you take the time to find a vet who approves of raw
feeding and knows about how to do it safely. This is only one example. If
there is some other aspect, you need a vet who is on the same page with you,
otherwise you will have a relationship based on either lies or on combative
exchanges and that is not good for your guide, for you, or for your
veterinarian.

I hope this is helpful.

Heather Bird
"They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't
a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
Protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." -
Martin Niemöller
In our diverse society we must never fail to speak up in the face of Human
Rights violations lest we be the next targets of such violations.

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Steeves via
NAGDU
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 1:36 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users; Star
Gazer via NAGDU; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'
Cc: Gary Steeves
Subject: [NAGDU] how to find the best bet?

Hello all:

this thread has reminded me of something I wanted to ask the list. Me and my
girlfriend  have been discussing vets in preparation for when we get our
next dog.  Bogart went to a vet a block from my house which certainly was
convenient.  however, when Bogart became ill we started having questions
about their either quality of care or honesty.  In fairness, we don't know
what caused Bogart's demise and we had a lot of denial with  what we were
witnessing with our dog.  I have this issue with vets, and dentists for that
matter, is that they make their money from selling services or drugs so how
can I trust them to have my  dogs best interest in mind.

is there a good place to get a list of questions to ask a potential vet?  

appreciate people's thoughts.

Gary

On June 18, 2017 4:11:24 PM PDT, Star Gazer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>				Let her figure it out, this is her business,
literally. Tell her 
>your setup and let her decide if she can provide you with mobile 
>services if that is what you'd like.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miranda via 
>NAGDU
>Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 10:28 AM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: Miranda <knownoflove at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [NAGDU] house calls from vets?
>
>We actually have a vet here in our city that has a mobile practice. She 
>is one of the options that we are considering, as she was recommended 
>by someone I know. However, I'm not sure how well this would work for 
>those of us who live in apartments, as she has a truck and I'm not sure 
>if there would be enough room for her to park in our parking lot.
>
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 18, 2017, at 9:06 AM, Dan Weiner via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>wrote:
>> 
>> So then the question is: here in the States, anyway, are there any
>doctors
>who will come to your home in an emergency? I know of none but that 
>doesn't mean it doesn't exist--smile. When i was in Japan I had a good 
>relationship with a vet who was starting a practice with her husband. 
>She and her husband had worked at the former vet I went to and they 
>would come to my home or  I mean, the place I was 
>staying--smilesometimes, I should try to find them again and see how 
>they are--smile. But I know of no one here in the States.
>I'm just responding because Bianka mentioned that that would be a 
>factor in choosing a vet...so, Bianka, will vets come to your home in 
>Germany on occasion, and for that matter, do regular doctors make house 
>calls?
>Here
>they did in the fifties and sixties but that stopped being very common 
>here.
>> 
>> Take care everyone.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 6/18/2017 8:21 AM, Bianka via NAGDU wrote:
>>> Hello Miranda and list,
>>> 
>>> The only question that came to mind is if the vet in question has
>some
>experience with working dogs? Personally vets that have some experience 
>with working dogs can usually judge a bit better when the dog is fit to 
>work after an operation. However, if it's not your first guide dog this 
>doesn't really play a big role. Service hours and whether you can get 
>to the vet easily or if he/she can come and see you at your home in an 
>emergency situations are more important for me. Also, for me, I like a 
>vet who includes wholistic treatment methods but that's a personal 
>choice I guess.
>>> 
>>> Thanks and kind regards,
>>> 
>>> Bianka
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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