[NAGDU] Fidelco, was, Criminal background check
Star Gazer
pickrellrebecca at gmail.com
Wed Jun 21 21:44:14 UTC 2017
I'm curious. How does brushup training work? What do they do exactly, and how do you get the time away from your life to go back to school for this training?
-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chantel Cuddemi via NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 2:57 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Chantel Cuddemi <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Fidelco, was, Criminal background check
Hi there,
Pilot dogs also trains GSD's. When I was in brush up training with my poodle, another student came in with her shepherd for brush up! So they do train Shepherd's. There was also a shepherd in my class when I first got Motley.
HTH,
Chantel.
On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 2:44 PM Buddy Brannan via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> One small correction:
>
> Fidelco is one of *two*, perhaps three, programs that train
> exclusively GSD's. The other two are a tiny program in Washington
> State whose name I've forgotten...something like Independence Guide
> Dogs or some such...and the newly rstructured and growing Eye Dog Foundation in Arizona.
>
> One interesting thing of note on the Eye Dog Foundation: I had a nice
> chat with the person in charge of the puppy kennels, who invited me to
> go and see their facility the next time I go to Arizona, which is
> possible since Ih have family there. Anyway, they are a program that
> seems open to blind trainers. They're not hiring new apprentices now,
> but they stated very publicly, on their Facebook page, that the
> perspectives of owner trainers are important and valuable and that
> they're willing to listen to our input along with others in the field. It's a pretty refreshing change.
>
> Sorry, I don't know what their ownership policy is.
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 21, 2017, at 2:29 PM, Heather Bird via NAGDU
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, list. As a graduate of Fidelco, I feel compelled to chime in
> > here with my thoughts on the organization. I should say that for
> > background, I had dogs from Fidelco from 2006 to 2010, which was
> > around the time that
> Mrs.
> > Caman died and things started to go to hell in a hand basket. I
> > believe
> that
> > John Bifield had already departed at that time as well. First the
> positives.
> >
> > A. They are the only school training exclusively German Shepherd
> > Dogs,
> which
> > is very important as almost all of the other schools in the country
> > have discontinued or seriously down-sized their breeding programs for GSDs.
> The
> > Seeing Eye and Fidelco are responsible for keeping GSDs alive as a
> guiding
> > breed in the United States. Yes, some other schools still produce
> > GSDs,
> but
> > not in large numbers. Some schools have re-instituted their GSD
> > breeding
> or
> > tried to re-invigorate and build up their GSD programs in the past
> > few years, which is great, but the numbers just aren't up yet. So,
> > if you
> want
> > to be guaranteed a GSD, Fidelco is the place to go. Now, Eye Dog
> Foundation
> > sort of collapsed but I've heard from a few people that they are back.
> How
> > strong they are, how the quality of the dogs is at present, whether
> > their past problems have been overcome, I have no idea. Time will
> > tell, but
> they
> > are a very small program, so can only help the GSD numbers just so much.
> > Also, given past miss-steps it will take time to see if they are a
> > viable option for people at this time. I do wish them success as we
> > need more quality producers of GSD guide dogs. But, case rests, for
> > guaranteed GSDs you've got Fidelco and maybe, maybe Eye Dog
> > Foundation. Yes, The Seeing
> Eye
> > does produce a large number of quality GSDs, I believe they produce
> > the
> most
> > in our country for a school that produces a variety of breeds, but
> > I'd
> have
> > to look at stats to be entirely accurate.
> > B. They provide home training. Most on-campus training programs
> > provide
> home
> > training, at some times for some students, but there are two problems. A.
> > They often have pretty restrictive criteria for doing so. For
> > instance at TSE you must be a former graduate of theirs to get home
> > training, not
> just
> > be a repeat guide dog handler, but you must be one of their
> > graduates,
> even
> > if you have successfully had home training from Fidelco or Freedom
> > Guide Dogs before, and you wait a very long time, about as long as
> > you would
> for
> > Freedom or Fidelco. B. Home training is great, on-campus training is
> great,
> > but when a school specializes in one or the other, they are experts
> > at providing that kind and their ability to provide quality
> > placements in
> the
> > other type which is not their mainstay may not match up. It
> > certainly
> could
> > be as good or better, but there's no telling since that is not their
> area of
> > expertise. I believe that the only two purely home training schools
> > in
> the
> > US at this time are Fidelco and Freedom Guide Dogs.
> > C. Their dogs are wonderful. They are very intelligent, loyal,
> > beautiful examples of their breed. Both of my girls from Fidelco
> > were absolutely brilliant, gorgeous, outstanding dogs. Some people
> > will mention health or behavioral problems in Fidelco GSDs, but
> > similar problems do crop up in
> TSE
> > shepherds as well, and even more so in the breeding programs at
> > other schools where they are just now beginning to re-instate or to
> > revitalize their flagging GSD breeding. So, personally, I think that
> > TSE has the
> best
> > shepherd lines Fidelco has a close second, Eye Dog Foundation is as
> > of
> yet
> > unknown and relatively untested after their recent return to the
> > scene,
> and
> > the other school's lines are hit or miss but are on their way to
> improving.
> > For which I am very grateful, BTW, because more quality GSDs
> > available
> in
> > our country is a wonderful thing.
> > D. Their trainers are absolutely amazing. I have had unfortunate
> experiences
> > with some of the Fidelco staff but never with a trainer. Every
> > Fidelco trainer I have ever met or worked with was comparable in
> > respectfulness, competence and knowledge to my favorite Seeing Eye
> > trainers. The great
> thing
> > about home training is lots of one-on-one time with your trainer and
> > the terrible thing is also lots of that one-on-one time. If you like
> > your trainer and work well with them, then it is heaven, if you do
> > not get
> along
> > well, then it is hell. I was lucky to have great working
> > relationships
> with
> > all of my Fidelco trainers. Now, I counsel caution regarding their
> policies,
> > and what you say and how you say it to various staff members such as
> office
> > staff, board members, etc., but the trainers themselves are
> > absolutely great. I have met and or worked with 6 of their trainers,
> > so that's a good-sized sampling for a relatively small school.
> > However there was a
> lot
> > of staff turn-over, which brings me to the list of cons.
> >
> > A. The trainer who placed me with Drew retired, was fired, laid off,
> > I'm
> not
> > sure, in September after placing a dog with me in July or August,
> > and
> they
> > did not re-assign her cell or change the greeting on the voice mail
> > so I left her messages requesting assistance not knowing that she
> > was no
> longer
> > there. That January another trainer came to do a placement with a
> > dog
> that
> > she and I mutually decided was not a good match, and by the time I
> > was placed with Paisley in summer of 2007, that trainer was gone,
> > again, for what reason I do not know. I do know two of the trainers
> > that I met are still there today and the other two I am unsure of as
> > to whether they are still there. The head of graduate services also
> > sort of disappeared from
> the
> > scene around the time I was retiring Paisley and I think that his
> departure
> > had something to do with my unsuccessful reapplication to Fidelco
> > for a successor. So yeah, high staff turnover, can be especially is
> > rough, when the trainers are one of the best things about the school.
> > B. Lack of transparency. They never had as good transparency as TSE,
> > but
> it
> > used to be much better. Example, their model of puppy raiser contact
> used to
> > be great, I think preferable to TSE's current, no contact policy or
> > other school's full and encouraged contact policy. They would ask
> > the raiser
> and
> > the grad if they wanted contact, and if both did, then they
> > exchanged information and the grad and raiser could take it from
> > there, if either party did not wish it, then there was not an
> > exchange. However, this
> policy
> > has now been changed to mirror TSE's policy of no raiser contact at all.
> > Other examples, great and small abound of how the transparency of
> > the organization has decreased over the past two decades, especially
> > after
> Mrs.
> > Caman's passing.
> > C. Problems with placements. It is going to sound contradictory no
> > matter how I try to explain it. After all, Fidelco is the reason I
> > am now so devoted to GSDs. People have asked me "Heather, if you had
> > problems with your GSDs, then why the heck are you so dedicated to
> > the breed?" I guess what I can say is heartfelt but a bit circular
> > or incomprehensible, and
> it
> > is this "Look if I could have so many problems with my Fidelco GSDs
> > and still be absolutely in love with the breed, then there must just
> > be something very special about the breed and or, among the things
> > Fidelco
> is
> > doing wrong, they must also be doing many things right." Beyond that
> > I cannot explain it. The first dog they gave me had an over-active
> > prey/herding drive and she started nipping at people in a herding,
> > not an attacking fashion and had to be retired. They took her to the
> > school,
> worked
> > with her, then returned her to me and she nipped someone the next
> > day
> and I
> > called the trainer who had left only hours before and said "Look,
> > you
> need
> > to come and get her right now, because University Police is at my
> > door
> and
> > I'm not turning her over to them or animal control, but you need to
> > come
> and
> > take possession of her right now for her sake." It was a minor nip
> > that
> left
> > a red mark, but did not break the skin. It was very traumatic as
> > there
> was
> > not much time to say goodbye, and due to being away at college,
> > retiring
> her
> > to my mom's house was not a viable option either. The school kept
> > saying "It's not your fault. You are doing everything right." Which
> > is not a comfort, let me tell you. I kept saying "Please find
> > something I am doing wrong, because if I am, then that also means
> > that I can fix, change or improve it and solve the problem." They
> > brought a dog in the winter but
> she
> > was overwhelmed by large groups of children and I was in the music
> education
> > program to teach elementary school aged children, so the trainer and
> > I agreed that she was not a good fit for my life, but that she could
> certainly
> > serve someone who did not have to deal with such large numbers of
> > kids
> on a
> > daily basis. In the summer, one year after I got Drew, I was given
> Paisley.
> > She was a great dog and worked for two years. She began to bond with
> > my husband, despite the fact that he never fed or watered or
> > relieved or groomed her. He did not walk her or play with her. He
> > had very limited contact with her, just saying hi to her and
> > sometimes scratching her
> behind
> > the ears if she was on the couch with the two of us. However,
> > Paisley was very observant, empathic and sweet. She picked up on his
> > PTSD and decided that he needed her help more than I did. If we
> > worked with him around at all, she would go crazy to try and stay
> > near him, would get distracted
> from
> > her guiding and follow him, refuse to turn and go a different way
> > from
> him,
> > look at traffic reacting to mini vans like the one that Jim drove.
> > If we were out without him she was fine, accept that in our
> > neighborhood she
> would
> > keep trying to take me home. The trainer who came told me that I had
> > let
> Jim
> > pay too much attention to her, even though this was absolutely not
> > the
> case.
> > I do get that this must happen sometimes with some negligent
> > handlers who flout the rules, but I had not done that at all. In
> > hind sight, what I should have done was retire her, retrain her as
> > Jim's Psychiatric service dog then apply to another school for a
> > successor for myself. At that time the ownership policy would have
> > allowed this, but obviously now, it does not. But I didn't know
> > about psych dogs for PTSD and so I returned her to the school. I
> > think that had Jim had his own psych dog when I got
> Paisley,
> > she would not have felt the need to take care of him. I think it
> > started
> one
> > time when Jim hit the deck and took cover under a bench when
> > fireworks
> went
> > off. My mom and I and baby Jeremy were in the van on the side of the
> > road when Jim went to retrieve a cooler from the place we had
> > accidentally
> left
> > it. He was out of the van a ways away, near the beach when the
> > fireworks started going off. We could not just stay on the road like
> > that and I was worried about Jim. So, I had Paisley go and find Jim.
> > She lead me to him, where he was unresponsive under a bench. I think
> > that flipped a switch
> for
> > her that he needed help and she was going to help him. Every time I
> > asked her to ignore him, or to work for me and not for him, when he
> > was around just caused her anxiety and frustration. There was
> > nothing I could have
> done
> > to make her a viable guide for me, and nothing I did to cause this
> problem,
> > but the first two trainers who had worked with me were not there to
> advocate
> > for me. The graduate rep. was also gone or on his way out so he
> > couldn't help either. I went through an appellate process when
> > denied a successor
> and
> > had to write explanatory letters when they would not even clarify
> > what
> their
> > reasons were fore denying my application. Had I or Fidelco known
> > more
> about
> > PTSD or psychiatric service dogs in 2010 this situation would not
> > have turned out the way it did. Neither of my dogs from TSE ever had
> > this problem, partly because Jim already had his own psych dog at
> > that point, partly because I made TSE aware of Jim's PTSD, and
> > partly because I was
> even
> > more paranoid about keeping the dogs at a distance from Jim. When I
> > first brought each home I told Jim not to make eye contact, or to
> > pet them on
> any
> > occasion for several months and to minimize even saying their names.
> > I do think it will feel very good to see Fidelco reps at convention
> > and have
> them
> > see how I am successfully working GSDs from the Seeing Eye, who
> > trusts
> and
> > believes in and communicates with me in a way that Fidelco could not
> > or would not.
> >
> > Bottom line? I would recommend Fidelco to some people in some
> > situations, but overall I have strong reservations. I love Fidelco
> > in many ways and I really hope that they can change some of their
> > policies and rebound to
> where
> > they used to be in terms of quality when the Camans were still
> > alive. I harbor no ill will and very much want to see them continue
> > as a school,
> to
> > thrive and flourish and improve, because I believe in their mission,
> their
> > dogs and their trainers, and I don't want to see them disappear or
> > to continue as they are.
> >
> > PS, when I got my dogs the ownership contract was not as good as the
> Seeing
> > Eye, but it wasn't as bad as it is now, either. Additionally, I did
> > not
> have
> > to undergo any background check of any kind. I had to submit
> > references
> and
> > such, but that is standard operating procedure at any responsible
> training
> > program.
> >
> > Heather Bird
> > "They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I
> wasn't
> > a Communist.
> > Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't
> > a
> Jew.
> > Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up
> > because I wasn't a trade unionist.
> > Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I
> > was a Protestant.
> > Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak
> > up." - Martin Niemöller In our diverse society we must never fail to
> > speak up in the face of
> Human
> > Rights violations lest we be the next targets of such violations.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU
> President
> > via NAGDU
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:40 AM
> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> > Cc: NAGDU President
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Criminal background check
> >
> > Dan,
> >
> > I agree with you and have asked Fidelco for more information.
> > I am very doubtful, though, we will get an answer to my inquiry,
> > since Fidelco believes, as stated by their Chief Operating Officer,
> > Julie Unwinn, that
> we
> > do not deserve answers to our inquiries nor input into their
> > policies
> since
> > we do not pay for the services they provide. We are only the
> beneficiaries
> > of such services paid for by their assertions that they help the blind.
> > Their convoluted arguments reflect the arrogance of their CEO, Eliot
> > Russman.
> >
> > While doing a little more research on this issue, I found a
> > very interesting website with numerous comments from past employees
> > about the corporate culture of Fidelco. You may want to take a look for yourselves!
> >
> >
> https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Fidelco-Guide-Dog-Foundation-Reviews
> -E6546
> > 08.htm
> >
> > Fraternally yours,
> > Marion
> >
> > Marion Gwizdala, President
> > National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National
> > Federation
> of
> > the Blind
> > (813) 626-2789
> > President at NAGDU.ORG
> >
> >
> > The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
> > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> > expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind
> people
> > and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not
> > what
> holds
> > you back.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan
> > Weiner
> via
> > NAGDU
> > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 10:29 PM
> > To: Alana Leonhardy via NAGDU
> > Cc: Dan Weiner
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Criminal background check
> >
> > I don't know, guys,is it really necessary, I mean, unless a school
> > can
> tell
> > me or convince me that they've had problem with people with criminal
> records
> > in enough cases that this is warranted, I would be very hesitant to
> > just
> buy
> > in to that type of reasoning.
> >
> > So let's see, all do you need a criminal background check to
> > receive services for the blind? What about other comparable
> > services, yes I
> know, it
> > all boils down to the argument about what you're allowed to ask if
> > you
> are
> > providing a service and ultimately it comes back to the same type of
> > arguments we hear about ownership, to give ownership or not to give
> > ownership. If it were up to me, NAGDU and GDUI would be asking
> > Fidelco
> why
> > this is so necessary.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/18/2017 10:08 PM, Alana Leonhardy via NAGDU wrote:
> >> Hi, all,
> >> First off, if a school is going to require a background check, they
> > absolutely need to use a fully accessible website.
> >> On the issue itself, I think background checks are fine for a
> >> couple of
> > reasons. I agree with some previous posters that having a criminal
> > record should not automatically disqualify someone from being
> > accepted to training...and if that's how some schools are doing
> > things, then that's a big problem. I think that, with some
> > acceptions for various serious
> crimes,
> > things need to be looked at on a case by case basis.
> >> That being said, the safety of the dog isn't the only thing that
> >> needs to
> > be taken in to account. There are also the other student's to consider.
> For
> > example, a person convicted of rape may be a fine dog handler, but
> > it wouldn't be fair to potentially put the other students in danger
> regardless
> > of how well that person may be able to work a guide dog.
> >> Alana
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Jun 18, 2017, at 07:03, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> A friend of mine is applying to Fidelco, and he had to undergo a
> >>> criminal background check as part of the application process.
> >>> Fidelco told him the IGDF is recommending that all schools add the
> >>> check. He also said the website Fidelco used for his part of the
> >>> check wasn't really accessible, and he had to have a sighted
> >>> person fill
> > out the form for him.
> >>>
> >>> Just thought I'd share.
> >>>
> >>> Tracy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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