[NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs & Rent

Thu Jun 22 10:31:08 UTC 2017

So what then is the difference between working part time and semi 
retired?  I'm honestly curious.  It seems like 6 of one and a half dozen 
of the other.  Just different words to describe the same thing.

On the thunderstorm example...it is fairly common practice to leave a 
working guide at home from time to time if the person feels that the 
event isn't appropriate for their particular dog, or to practice cane 
skills, or to give the dog an opportunity to practice being alone.  A 
mishap at home can occur  no matter what the status of the dog.

Julie
http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com

On 6/21/2017 8:50 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU wrote:
> The only thing I would say about this semi-retired thing is that people
> don't get it. Let's imagine that you aren't paying a pet deposit because
> your dog is a guide except that now he is semi-retired. Let's imagine he was
> left alone in the apartment and, say, a thunderstorm came up and those freak
> im out. Let's imagine you have not seen this fact in him before, but suppose
> he tore up the place in a panic while he was at home enjoying
> semi-retirement. Would you then offer to pay for the damage? Might the
> landlord not think that you were being a bit flexible of the dog's place in
> life? I think I would not differentiate between retired and working unless
> he is truly retired. If the dog was having problems where he couldn't always
> work, I would just say he's my guide if he were still working in that
> capacity.
>
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:29 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs &
> Rent
>
> Semi retired means only working part time due to old age or helth.  So, I
> don't think there is any problem in doing what I said.
> Jordan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:18 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs &
> Rent
>
> I would have to agree with President Gwizdala on this semi-retired business.
> I had a dog who was retired once in about 2006. I retired him during my
> first semester at the seminary. I missed him terribly. The school gave me
> permission to bring him back to stay at the school with me because he had
> been my companion. I kept him there the rest of the semester, but I learned
> some interesting and eye-opening things.
> 1) Since he was retired or even semi-retired, he wouldn't be going to class
> with me but, rather, would stay in my room. He was not destructive, but this
> fact alone had totally changed the relationship between him, me, and the
> school for that matter.
>
> 2) If I went to someone's room/apartment because they had a get-together or
> a party, they could ask me not to bring him, and I would need to comply. It
> would have been wrong for me to argue this point.
>
> 3) There was a pet policy at my seminary. There was a weight limit, and all
> of the pets had to live in a certain building. I did not live in that
> building, and my dog was larger than the pet limit by spades no matter where
> we stayed.
>
> 4) People were staying there at the school during the week; then many went
> home for the weekend. They missed their pets that couldn't come along, and
> there was a little sense of unfairness about it. It occurred to me just how
> unfair it was that my dog was there. He wasn't a guide anymore, he was a
> pet. So I made the decision to leave him at home after about six weeks. It
> had helped me through a difficult time, but I had risked my relationships
> with many I think.
>
> My current dog is actually retired. One day I had him work me to the
> dentist, but I didn't hide the fact that he was actually retired. He was in
> harness doing what he was supposed to do. I used him because with large tree
> equipment outside I couldn't hear if there was traffic or not. I'm not sure
> it was ethical for me to do this; I did not lie about who he was, and the
> dentist regarded him as a guide. This is not something I would make a
> practice of because I think he either is retired or he isn't. If I were in a
> situation where pet deposits were required,  I would pay it because Fisher
> is now a pet. Carrying that further, I suppose I would have to find a new
> place to live if there was a size limit on the pet or the pet wasn't allowed
> at all, though if I were in a lease situation I might negotiate a
> satisfactory way to deal with the remainder of the lease, depending on the
> terms of it.
>
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU President
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:10 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: NAGDU President <blind411 at verizon.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs &
> Rent
>
> 	In graduate school I was required to take a course in ethics. The
> professor defined ethics as "compliance with the unenforceable". I believe
> this is as much a matter of ethics as it is a matter of law. In my opinion,
> taking advantage of the law by calling a retired service dog "semi retired"
> is unethical, as well as illegal.  How is this different than those who take
> advantage of the law that provides us access to places of public
> accommodation with our service dog by misrepresenting their pet as a service
> dog? It is no different when we call our retired service dog semi retired in
> order to avoid paying a pet deposit. Folks, we can't have it both ways! We
> cannot ask for those who misrepresent their pets as service dogs to not do
> so if we are willing to act the same way.
>
> 	I also want to remind everyone that this list is publicly archived
> on the internet. What you say and how you represent yourself is here for the
> entire world to read. If you are willing to compromise your integrity by
> suggesting someone act in a manner contrary to ethics and law, you are
> telling the world a lot about yourself. Is this the way you want others to
> think of you?
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National Federation of
> the Blind
> (813) 626-2789
> President at NAGDU.ORG
>
>
> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  people
> and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds
> you back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:04 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Retired Dogs & Rent
>
> Here is what my instructor said about that.  Semi retire the dog since you
> can have two service animals with no problems.  That is what I would do.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nancy VanderBrink
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 4:32 PM
> To: Nancy VanderBrink via Nagdu
> Cc: Nancy VanderBrink
> Subject: [NAGDU] Retired Dogs & Rent
>
> Hey folks,
> So a question was asked on a group i follow and wondered what you guys knew.
>
> So, if you're renting either a house or apartment with your current guide.
> I'm going to assume you're not paying a pet fee.
>
> Folks that have done this before, after you retire your guide; do you have
> to pay a pet fee if you keep your guide, do you have to then pay a pet fee?
>
> Just curious to know what you've experienced.
>
> Thanks,
> Nancy
>
> Please forgive the typos as this message was most likely generated using
> voice dictation Nancy Irwin
>
>
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