[NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs & Rent

Gary Steeves rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca
Thu Jun 22 16:49:20 UTC 2017


hi all

this is an interesting tropic.  I would have to agree with Tracy.   if I had had  Bogart as a retired dog and a new guide dog I certainly had planned on working him from time to time on short little routes  to the mall a few blocks away as long as he was interested.  he wouldn't have been retired, just working from home. :). 

also, many of you have heard about British Columbia's new guide dog legislation.  one of the positive things that came out of that is that you now can keep your retired service dog even if you are living in a rental, or strata, that. doesn't allow pets or has size limitations.  that took away one worry.

Gary


On June 22, 2017 6:55:50 AM PDT, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>Hi Cindy.
>I think you making too black-and-white a line between retired and not
>retired.  If your dog can work occasionally, and is useful to you, then
>that's fine.  People don't need to know he's retire or not.  He's
>working as
>a guide; he's a guide.
>If you were renting in a place that didn't allow pets, that would be
>more of
>a grey area, but, if you're using him as a guide to go some place, that
>business just needs to know he's a guide, which he is.
>JMO.
>Tracy
> 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>via
>NAGDU
>Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 9:18 PM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>Cc: Cindy Ray
>Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired
>Dogs &
>Rent
>
>I would have to agree with President Gwizdala on this semi-retired
>business.
>I had a dog who was retired once in about 2006. I retired him during my
>first semester at the seminary. I missed him terribly. The school gave
>me
>permission to bring him back to stay at the school with me because he
>had
>been my companion. I kept him there the rest of the semester, but I
>learned
>some interesting and eye-opening things. 
>1) Since he was retired or even semi-retired, he wouldn't be going to
>class
>with me but, rather, would stay in my room. He was not destructive, but
>this
>fact alone had totally changed the relationship between him, me, and
>the
>school for that matter.
>
>2) If I went to someone's room/apartment because they had a
>get-together or
>a party, they could ask me not to bring him, and I would need to
>comply. It
>would have been wrong for me to argue this point. 
>
>3) There was a pet policy at my seminary. There was a weight limit, and
>all
>of the pets had to live in a certain building. I did not live in that
>building, and my dog was larger than the pet limit by spades no matter
>where
>we stayed. 
>
>4) People were staying there at the school during the week; then many
>went
>home for the weekend. They missed their pets that couldn't come along,
>and
>there was a little sense of unfairness about it. It occurred to me just
>how
>unfair it was that my dog was there. He wasn't a guide anymore, he was
>a
>pet. So I made the decision to leave him at home after about six weeks.
>It
>had helped me through a difficult time, but I had risked my
>relationships
>with many I think. 
>
>My current dog is actually retired. One day I had him work me to the
>dentist, but I didn't hide the fact that he was actually retired. He
>was in
>harness doing what he was supposed to do. I used him because with large
>tree
>equipment outside I couldn't hear if there was traffic or not. I'm not
>sure
>it was ethical for me to do this; I did not lie about who he was, and
>the
>dentist regarded him as a guide. This is not something I would make a
>practice of because I think he either is retired or he isn't. If I were
>in a
>situation where pet deposits were required,  I would pay it because
>Fisher
>is now a pet. Carrying that further, I suppose I would have to find a
>new
>place to live if there was a size limit on the pet or the pet wasn't
>allowed
>at all, though if I were in a lease situation I might negotiate a
>satisfactory way to deal with the remainder of the lease, depending on
>the
>terms of it.
>
>Cindy Lou Ray
>cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU
>President
>via NAGDU
>Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:10 PM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: NAGDU President <blind411 at verizon.net>
>Subject: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs
>&
>Rent
>
>	In graduate school I was required to take a course in ethics. The
>professor defined ethics as "compliance with the unenforceable". I
>believe
>this is as much a matter of ethics as it is a matter of law. In my
>opinion,
>taking advantage of the law by calling a retired service dog "semi
>retired"
>is unethical, as well as illegal.  How is this different than those who
>take
>advantage of the law that provides us access to places of public
>accommodation with our service dog by misrepresenting their pet as a
>service
>dog? It is no different when we call our retired service dog semi
>retired in
>order to avoid paying a pet deposit. Folks, we can't have it both ways!
>We
>cannot ask for those who misrepresent their pets as service dogs to not
>do
>so if we are willing to act the same way. 
>
>	I also want to remind everyone that this list is publicly archived
>on the internet. What you say and how you represent yourself is here
>for the
>entire world to read. If you are willing to compromise your integrity
>by
>suggesting someone act in a manner contrary to ethics and law, you are
>telling the world a lot about yourself. Is this the way you want others
>to
>think of you? 
>Marion Gwizdala, President
>National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National
>Federation of
>the Blind
>(813) 626-2789
>President at NAGDU.ORG
>
>
>The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
>expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind 
>people
>and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what
>holds
>you back.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan
>Gallacher
>via NAGDU
>Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:04 PM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>Cc: Jordan Gallacher
>Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Retired Dogs & Rent
>
>Here is what my instructor said about that.  Semi retire the dog since
>you
>can have two service animals with no problems.  That is what I would
>do.
>Jordan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nancy
>VanderBrink
>via NAGDU
>Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 4:32 PM
>To: Nancy VanderBrink via Nagdu
>Cc: Nancy VanderBrink
>Subject: [NAGDU] Retired Dogs & Rent
>
>Hey folks,
>So a question was asked on a group i follow and wondered what you guys
>knew.
>
>So, if you're renting either a house or apartment with your current
>guide.
>I'm going to assume you're not paying a pet fee.
>
>Folks that have done this before, after you retire your guide; do you
>have
>to pay a pet fee if you keep your guide, do you have to then pay a pet
>fee?
>
>Just curious to know what you've experienced.
>
>Thanks,
>Nancy
>
>Please forgive the typos as this message was most likely generated
>using
>voice dictation Nancy Irwin
>
>
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-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


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