[NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired Dogs & Rent

Sat Jun 24 11:25:18 UTC 2017

not really, what is this magical thing that says the dog is retired or 
not, I thought the law referred to the training the dog has and so on 
rather than some magical retirement, the same as the question of 
equipment, it's not the equipment but the training of the dog that makes 
it a service animal.

Dan

On 6/23/2017 7:55 PM, Wayne & Harley via NAGDU wrote:
> * Hello Stacie,
> I'd like to offer a small clarification. While I agree with your 
> sentiment, there does need some clarifying.
> No dog, whether a Service Animal, or a pet have any rights.
> Perhaps you meant to say "**When our Service Animals retire, we no 
> longer have the same rights as when our Service Animal is working". 
> Meaning that we no longer have the right to be accompanied by the 
> retired Service Animal in public, nor the right to not have to pay a 
> pet deposit for the retired Service Animal. I agree that those passing 
> their retired Service Animals off as working to claim benefits not due 
> them is definitely making it more difficult for owners of working 
> Service Animals.
>
> Wayne And Harley D
> k9dad at k9di.org
> "Remember, all Guide Dogs are Service Dogs, but not all Service Dogs 
> are Guide Dogs". ( I don't know who to attribute this to).
>
> *
>
> On 6/22/2017 8:46 PM, Stacie Hardy - NFBHOU via NAGDU wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> We're just getting back from traveling, and I'm getting caught on 
>> some email. Saw this thread, and decided to read and respond. I 
>> completely agree with what Marion has said. When our guide dogs 
>> retire, they are no longer given the same rights as working guide or 
>> service dogs. I think people who try to pass off their retired guide 
>> dogs to get certain benefits are making things difficult for the 
>> working guide dogs. Just my thoughts. Looking forward to seeing some 
>> of you in Orlando. Warm regards.
>>
>> Stacie Hardy <shardy at nfbtx.org>
>> President: NFB of Texas Houston Chapter
>> Voice and Text: (346) 704-0190 or (832) 779-7477
>>
>> "A question never asked is an answer never known"
>> "Live the life you want!"
>>
>> On 6/21/2017 8:50 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU wrote:
>>> The only thing I would say about this semi-retired thing is that people
>>> don't get it. Let's imagine that you aren't paying a pet deposit 
>>> because
>>> your dog is a guide except that now he is semi-retired. Let's 
>>> imagine he was
>>> left alone in the apartment and, say, a thunderstorm came up and 
>>> those freak
>>> im out. Let's imagine you have not seen this fact in him before, but 
>>> suppose
>>> he tore up the place in a panic while he was at home enjoying
>>> semi-retirement. Would you then offer to pay for the damage? Might the
>>> landlord not think that you were being a bit flexible of the dog's 
>>> place in
>>> life? I think I would not differentiate between retired and working 
>>> unless
>>> he is truly retired. If the dog was having problems where he 
>>> couldn't always
>>> work, I would just say he's my guide if he were still working in that
>>> capacity.
>>>
>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan 
>>> Gallacher
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:29 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Jordan Gallacher <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was 
>>> Retired Dogs &
>>> Rent
>>>
>>> Semi retired means only working part time due to old age or helth.  
>>> So, I
>>> don't think there is any problem in doing what I said.
>>> Jordan
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray 
>>> via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:18 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Cc: Cindy Ray
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was 
>>> Retired Dogs &
>>> Rent
>>>
>>> I would have to agree with President Gwizdala on this semi-retired 
>>> business.
>>> I had a dog who was retired once in about 2006. I retired him during my
>>> first semester at the seminary. I missed him terribly. The school 
>>> gave me
>>> permission to bring him back to stay at the school with me because 
>>> he had
>>> been my companion. I kept him there the rest of the semester, but I 
>>> learned
>>> some interesting and eye-opening things.
>>> 1) Since he was retired or even semi-retired, he wouldn't be going 
>>> to class
>>> with me but, rather, would stay in my room. He was not destructive, 
>>> but this
>>> fact alone had totally changed the relationship between him, me, and 
>>> the
>>> school for that matter.
>>>
>>> 2) If I went to someone's room/apartment because they had a 
>>> get-together or
>>> a party, they could ask me not to bring him, and I would need to 
>>> comply. It
>>> would have been wrong for me to argue this point.
>>>
>>> 3) There was a pet policy at my seminary. There was a weight limit, 
>>> and all
>>> of the pets had to live in a certain building. I did not live in that
>>> building, and my dog was larger than the pet limit by spades no 
>>> matter where
>>> we stayed.
>>>
>>> 4) People were staying there at the school during the week; then 
>>> many went
>>> home for the weekend. They missed their pets that couldn't come 
>>> along, and
>>> there was a little sense of unfairness about it. It occurred to me 
>>> just how
>>> unfair it was that my dog was there. He wasn't a guide anymore, he 
>>> was a
>>> pet. So I made the decision to leave him at home after about six 
>>> weeks. It
>>> had helped me through a difficult time, but I had risked my 
>>> relationships
>>> with many I think.
>>>
>>> My current dog is actually retired. One day I had him work me to the
>>> dentist, but I didn't hide the fact that he was actually retired. He 
>>> was in
>>> harness doing what he was supposed to do. I used him because with 
>>> large tree
>>> equipment outside I couldn't hear if there was traffic or not. I'm 
>>> not sure
>>> it was ethical for me to do this; I did not lie about who he was, 
>>> and the
>>> dentist regarded him as a guide. This is not something I would make a
>>> practice of because I think he either is retired or he isn't. If I 
>>> were in a
>>> situation where pet deposits were required,  I would pay it because 
>>> Fisher
>>> is now a pet. Carrying that further, I suppose I would have to find 
>>> a new
>>> place to live if there was a size limit on the pet or the pet wasn't 
>>> allowed
>>> at all, though if I were in a lease situation I might negotiate a
>>> satisfactory way to deal with the remainder of the lease, depending 
>>> on the
>>> terms of it.
>>>
>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of NAGDU 
>>> President
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:10 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: NAGDU President <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Ethics, Law, & Your Public Comments: Was Retired 
>>> Dogs &
>>> Rent
>>>
>>>     In graduate school I was required to take a course in ethics. The
>>> professor defined ethics as "compliance with the unenforceable". I 
>>> believe
>>> this is as much a matter of ethics as it is a matter of law. In my 
>>> opinion,
>>> taking advantage of the law by calling a retired service dog "semi 
>>> retired"
>>> is unethical, as well as illegal.  How is this different than those 
>>> who take
>>> advantage of the law that provides us access to places of public
>>> accommodation with our service dog by misrepresenting their pet as a 
>>> service
>>> dog? It is no different when we call our retired service dog semi 
>>> retired in
>>> order to avoid paying a pet deposit. Folks, we can't have it both 
>>> ways! We
>>> cannot ask for those who misrepresent their pets as service dogs to 
>>> not do
>>> so if we are willing to act the same way.
>>>
>>>     I also want to remind everyone that this list is publicly archived
>>> on the internet. What you say and how you represent yourself is here 
>>> for the
>>> entire world to read. If you are willing to compromise your 
>>> integrity by
>>> suggesting someone act in a manner contrary to ethics and law, you are
>>> telling the world a lot about yourself. Is this the way you want 
>>> others to
>>> think of you?
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU) National 
>>> Federation of
>>> the Blind
>>> (813) 626-2789
>>> President at NAGDU.ORG
>>>
>>>
>>> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
>>> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
>>> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind  
>>> people
>>> and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not 
>>> what holds
>>> you back.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan 
>>> Gallacher
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 6:04 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Retired Dogs & Rent
>>>
>>> Here is what my instructor said about that.  Semi retire the dog 
>>> since you
>>> can have two service animals with no problems.  That is what I would 
>>> do.
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nancy 
>>> VanderBrink
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 4:32 PM
>>> To: Nancy VanderBrink via Nagdu
>>> Cc: Nancy VanderBrink
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Retired Dogs & Rent
>>>
>>> Hey folks,
>>> So a question was asked on a group i follow and wondered what you 
>>> guys knew.
>>>
>>> So, if you're renting either a house or apartment with your current 
>>> guide.
>>> I'm going to assume you're not paying a pet fee.
>>>
>>> Folks that have done this before, after you retire your guide; do 
>>> you have
>>> to pay a pet fee if you keep your guide, do you have to then pay a 
>>> pet fee?
>>>
>>> Just curious to know what you've experienced.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Nancy
>>>
>>> Please forgive the typos as this message was most likely generated 
>>> using
>>> voice dictation Nancy Irwin
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co 
>>>
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co 
>>>
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/shardy%40nfbtx.org
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/k9dad%40k9di.org
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc.net 
>
>
>