[NAGDU] Dog relieving
Peter Wolf
pwolf1 at wolfskills.com
Fri Mar 10 02:28:19 UTC 2017
Dog relieving comedy...
Perhaps it’s because I wanted more in our relationship with Metukah than just “work”. I just love my dogs so deeply. Long before I got vision issues, dogs -my pet dog - were some of the most important people in my life. Of course, who wouldn’t love their dog once they get to know it, even if assigned. But it’s just the way I feel/felt, before ever getting a puppy and training her. I wanted work and family member to be warm and fuzzy, and one package. Working through bond of loving devotion as much as duty and training. Just the kind of guy I am. Hey if I got a dog from a program, who knows, I might have fallen in love anyway.
So ok, we are less formal. We want good elimination, but we are looser than some perhaps. What I mean is that we’ll always let the girls out before leaving. We cut them loose into the small fenced backyard area we made for them that is the “eliminaton zone”. That usually takes care of it. But en route, if one stops, on the way down a sidewalk, we go with it. And usually, it is real, that whatever they need to get out happens.
Metukah, in particular, is quite the empath, and her guts can reflect anything stress or emotional like a dog does with a too fast diet change. She is sensitive. Ok then! We carry bags, and have learned to take it as a human’s lesson not to be adrenal going somewhere, actually go on time knowing that we may pause for some reason whether canine or human, or parking, or some other reason to not get nuts being late.
When we fly, I let Metukah cruise the whole dog relief area, inch by inch, until all of her tanks are empty, and she does, with rapt absorption. It’s only really about five minutes. Jeez, she’ll drop it, and pee three times in there! But it’s just that I know that’s how she works, and it’s the least I can give her for consideration. All set for long flights. *My* job is to manage me, so that a situation wouldn’t happen where I became a jerk, screeching into the airport late, crabbing out my wife, and dragging my dog around fast! I have learned that managing myself is a gift to her, and that she really on her own does great.
But- all that said…she has a nose. She *will* stop lately, full brakes, dead on the sidewalk, staring up at me with great urgency to smell the occasional sidewalk dog tree spot. I have tried to second guess her, even saying sternly, “this better be for a reason, grrrrr”. I have even, instead of turning which means negotiating, to wonder if she can get me to stop - I have placed my leash hand on the front of my hip bone and just kept walking without breaking stride. It puts her back into forward motion walking immediately again, not a “correction”. She just has no slack to stay stopped. “That must have communicated that stopping like that isn’t optional,” I say to myself. Then I’ve found that she did it again at the very next one. So then, I stop there and ask, “Really? Seriously? You really need to? Ok, go ahead, better be real BuddyGirl”. And guess what, she squats. So, hey. If her bladder works, I’ll work with it. It’s really not so much about her. Gotta cut her some slack, she’s giving her whole life and heart to me! Really it boils down to Peter! Dude! Mellow down. She’s ok. It’s actually about me! Slow down and give her a nose moment. It’s good for her brain chemistry. So what if she got to work her nose a couple of times in an hour. That’s what I’ve learned, even though in a program I’d probably get my butt kicked for it. I think in the end she responds even better because she knows I respect her.
On Mar 9, 2017, at 3:15 PM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Relieving on route (Tracy Carcione)
> 2. Re: Relieving on route (Jordan Gallacher)
> 3. Re: Relieving on route (Joe Orozco)
> 4. Re: Relieving on route (Tracy Carcione)
> 5. Re: Relieving on route (david at bakerinet.com)
> 6. Re: Relieving on route (Becky Frankeberger)
> 7. Hello, and Uber Letdown (Ed Rizzuto)
> 8. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Cindy Ray)
> 9. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Joe Orozco)
> 10. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (NAGDU President)
> 11. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Cindy Ray)
> 12. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Buddy Brannan)
> 13. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Buddy Brannan)
> 14. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Raul A. Gallegos)
> 15. Re: Relieving on route (Jordan Gallacher)
> 16. Re: Relieving on route (Jordan Gallacher)
> 17. Re: Relieving on route (Tracy Carcione)
> 18. Re: Relieving on route (Cindy Ray)
> 19. Re: Relieving on route (Cindy Ray)
> 20. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Michael Hingson)
> 21. Re: Relieving on route (Jordan Gallacher)
> 22. Re: Relieving on route (Cindy Ray)
> 23. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (L Gwizdak)
> 24. Question For Musicians (Rachel Grider)
> 25. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Michael Hingson)
> 26. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Robert Stigile)
> 27. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Michael Hingson)
> 28. Re: Question For Musicians (Cindy Ray)
> 29. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (L Gwizdak)
> 30. Re: Hello, and Uber Letdown (Michael Hingson)
> 31. Re: Question For Musicians (lkeeler at comcast.net)
> 32. Re: Question For Musicians (Heather Hutchison)
> 33. Re: Relieving on route (Danielle Ledet)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 09:17:25 -0500
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <003c01d298df$e1055e00$a3101a00$@access.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a safe
> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now, which is
> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him along
> until we come to a safe place.
>
> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and I give
> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places he
> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a place of
> my choosing.
>
> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens, and
> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop, I'd
> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting and
> shooing?
>
> Tracy
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 08:34:34 -0600
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <007301d298e2$4686b5b0$d3942110$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I have had the same problem with all my dogs. Belto has been the most
> consistant though where I know that I can only get about three blocks before
> he has to go enroute. I do the same as you and try to get to a spot of my
> choosing, but that is a long shot at best, and around where I live, being
> choosey is not a good thing because there is not a lot of grass around in
> safe areas.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 8:17 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a safe
> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now, which is
> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him along
> until we come to a safe place.
>
> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and I give
> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places he
> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a place of
> my choosing.
>
> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens, and
> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop, I'd
> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting and
> shooing?
>
> Tracy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 10:02:39 -0500
> From: Joe Orozco <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID:
> <CAMEPVZ7C+f=St2-XPqNhXAxnP3uuxa7SSiSu19wkqzrvTBRAPg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> A couple ideas:
>
> First, to get him to go before you start your route, give yourself
> enough time to allow him to relieve himself. Position yourself in a
> wide enough area where he can walk a circle around you. It?s better
> than standing in one spot and allowing him to create his own smaller
> circle. It?s the walking that?s loosening the process, so maybe the
> greater distance will mobilize things, but especially now that the
> weather is leaning generally toward warming up, you might allow
> yourself a little more time to let him go before you set off.
>
> Second, as he is taking care of business, pop a treat in his mouth. A
> bit counterproductive, you might say, but the timing should start to
> build the association between treat and relieving. Maybe come up with
> a trigger word you can proclaim when you treat him?
>
> Anyway, I hope this is of some use.
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 3/9/17, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I have had the same problem with all my dogs. Belto has been the most
>> consistant though where I know that I can only get about three blocks
>> before
>> he has to go enroute. I do the same as you and try to get to a spot of my
>> choosing, but that is a long shot at best, and around where I live, being
>> choosey is not a good thing because there is not a lot of grass around in
>> safe areas.
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 8:17 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>>
>> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a safe
>> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>>
>> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
>> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now, which is
>> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him along
>> until we come to a safe place.
>>
>> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and I
>> give
>> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places he
>> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a place of
>> my choosing.
>>
>> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens, and
>> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>>
>> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop, I'd
>> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>>
>> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting and
>> shooing?
>>
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
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>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 10:09:09 -0500
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <004f01d298e7$1a9d7600$4fd86200$@access.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I think being choosy is essential. I'm not looking for grass; I'm looking
> for a curb spot where he won't get run over. Even near home, where there is
> some grass, I want him to go somewhere I pick, and not just anywhere. Seems
> more neighborly, among other things. And more predictable for me. Right
> now, he stops, and I'm wondering is he stopping because there's an obstacle,
> or because he has to go? If we have a particular place, that should cut
> down on the wondering a lot.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 9:35 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I have had the same problem with all my dogs. Belto has been the most
> consistant though where I know that I can only get about three blocks before
> he has to go enroute. I do the same as you and try to get to a spot of my
> choosing, but that is a long shot at best, and around where I live, being
> choosey is not a good thing because there is not a lot of grass around in
> safe areas.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 8:17 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a safe
> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now, which is
> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him along
> until we come to a safe place.
>
> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and I give
> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places he
> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a place of
> my choosing.
>
> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens, and
> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop, I'd
> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting and
> shooing?
>
> Tracy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 12:25:57 -0500
> From: david at bakerinet.com
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID:
> <4005b6dc7ed45dff9e50657618ebd22e.squirrel at webmail04.register.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
>
> I have the same issue. ?Claire Rose is 41 moths old. ?She urinates in a regular spot in the morning, but will not defecate until she is about 50 yards into walking outside. ?That's not much of a problem. ?The two additional stops to defecate at about 500 and 1,000 to 3,000
> yards, however, are a big problem, especially since they are interspersed with two more stops to urinate (briefly squirt). ?I can't tell whether she is pulling over to defecate or to urinate, so if I think she just wants to squirt and I don't stop, I find that she has left a poop trail on the
> sidewalk. ?If l wait to remove her harness while she is hunching up to defecate, then she stops and won't continue until we get another 20 yards down the street.
> I've worked with my trainer on schedules, diet and adding things to her food. ?We switched to hydrolyzed protein, which
> decreased the volume and the odor dramatically, but has not altered the behavior. ?We added Metamucil, but she vomited every meal that included it about 6 hours after feeding. ?We added green beans - a bit softer, but no change in behavior. ?I'm now trying a couple of tablespoons of
> pumpkin puree, which has also softened the stool somewhat and added a little volume, but, again, no change in behavior. ?Since I have some residual vision on good days, I can usually handle this even though it is very frustrating. ?I am more concerned about travel, ?Since she
> defecates in harness if I don't stop, I am wondering if this is going to be a problem with flying. ?In the past, she handled 10 three hour flights with ease, but back then she didn't have this issue.
> Does anyone have any other ideas about changing this pattern of behavior?
> David
> & Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL
> Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> From: "Tracy Carcione via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Date: Thu, March 9, 2017 9:17 am
>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a safe
>
>> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
>>
>
>> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
>
>> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now, which is
>
>> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him along
>
>> until we come to a safe place.
>
>>
>
>> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and I give
>
>> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places he
>
>> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a place of
>
>> my choosing.
>
>>
>
>> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens, and
>
>> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
>>
>
>> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop, I'd
>
>> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
>>
>
>> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting and
>
>> shooing?
>
>>
>
>> Tracy
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> NAGDU mailing list
>
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/david%40bakerinet.com
>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 10:01:12 -0800
> From: "Becky Frankeberger" <b.butterfly at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <00c901d298ff$244af3e0$6ce0dba0$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Have a good play session before you leave the house to get things moving
> inside the pups. Then take them out to park. Then go on your way scratching
> ears at every curb and praising.
>
> One of the things we talked about on this list, and I am not sure you were
> on, Jordan, was modifying feeding schedules. For example, my husband's guide
> was waking us up in the very early morning to go outside, try four a.m. Well
> that's doesn't work. So I started feeding heavy two cups in the morning and
> only one at night, bingo, it worked fine. So maybe your pup needs his
> heavier meal at night.
>
> Between the play to get things moving and the modified schedule, things
> should go fine on your way to work.
>
> Becky and fluffy tail
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 6:35 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I have had the same problem with all my dogs. Belto has been the most
> consistant though where I know that I can only get about three blocks before
> he has to go enroute. I do the same as you and try to get to a spot of my
> choosing, but that is a long shot at best, and around where I live, being
> choosey is not a good thing because there is not a lot of grass around in
> safe areas.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 8:17 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a safe
> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now, which is
> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him along
> until we come to a safe place.
>
> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and I give
> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places he
> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a place of
> my choosing.
>
> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens, and
> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop, I'd
> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting and
> shooing?
>
> Tracy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/b.butterfly%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:56:28 -0500
> From: "Ed Rizzuto" <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <012a01d29906$dc363800$94a2a800$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
>
> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well, for the
> most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>
>
>
> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate any
> help in how to proceed.
>
>
>
> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a ride to
> my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up by a driver, I
> waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into my driveway. I
> approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver stated through the
> passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I explainted that I am
> blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I explained the law and explained
> Uber's policy. The driver just kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't
> ride in my car." He locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my
> driveway and drove off.
>
>
>
> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app and a
> support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that Uber takes
> these matters seriously, that the driver would be re-notified of his
> obligations and that the driver would have to re-affirm his understanding of
> the law and Uber's policy, and that he must allow service dogs to ride. The
> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination from the
> Uber program if he committed another violation.
>
>
>
> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no consequences to
> the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide dog user. Uber's
> software does not even allow me an opportunity to rate this driver as I was
> not charged. The driver will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request from
> me or from my home address again. He simply gets away with this and the
> Uber pool of drivers available to me is down by 1.
>
>
>
> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
> Edward Rizzuto
>
> (530) 570-7000
>
> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:01:20 -0600
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <022f01d29907$8a447a10$9ecd6e30$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> There has been a class action settlement gainst Uber on these issues in
> California, and it hold nationally. The National Federation of the Blind has
> lawyers, but I can't remember how to reach them. One is Tim Elder, and I
> can't remember the name of the other. We will get you the information so
> that you can contact them.
>
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 12:56 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
>
> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well, for the
> most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>
>
>
> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate any
> help in how to proceed.
>
>
>
> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a ride to
> my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up by a driver, I
> waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into my driveway. I
> approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver stated through the
> passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I explainted that I am
> blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I explained the law and explained
> Uber's policy. The driver just kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't
> ride in my car." He locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my
> driveway and drove off.
>
>
>
> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app and a
> support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that Uber takes
> these matters seriously, that the driver would be re-notified of his
> obligations and that the driver would have to re-affirm his understanding of
> the law and Uber's policy, and that he must allow service dogs to ride. The
> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination from the
> Uber program if he committed another violation.
>
>
>
> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no consequences to
> the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide dog user. Uber's
> software does not even allow me an opportunity to rate this driver as I was
> not charged. The driver will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request from
> me or from my home address again. He simply gets away with this and the
> Uber pool of drivers available to me is down by 1.
>
>
>
> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
> Edward Rizzuto
>
> (530) 570-7000
>
> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:15:13 -0500
> From: Joe Orozco <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID:
> <CAMEPVZ7_m_3sdXJ+LGKsRh1p-brVQjWzFkT+4aamS533f-Q=qQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Has anyone ever used the Contact feature to alert the Uber or Lyft
> driver to the presence of a guide dog? I know, I know, we shouldn't
> have to do this, but in terms of efficiency, I would rather we get the
> potential discrimination out of the way up front so I can go about my
> business and file my complaint. I understand it becomes harder to
> prove discrimination if you handle it this way, but I have never had a
> driver cancel on me thus far. I would imagine they would if the dog
> was a problem? I don't know. I'm curious about people's thoughts
> though.--Joe
>
> On 3/9/17, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> There has been a class action settlement gainst Uber on these issues in
>> California, and it hold nationally. The National Federation of the Blind
>> has
>> lawyers, but I can't remember how to reach them. One is Tim Elder, and I
>> can't remember the name of the other. We will get you the information so
>> that you can contact them.
>>
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 12:56 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
>> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well, for the
>> most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate any
>> help in how to proceed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a ride to
>> my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up by a driver, I
>> waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into my driveway. I
>> approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver stated through the
>> passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I explainted that I am
>> blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I explained the law and explained
>> Uber's policy. The driver just kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't
>> ride in my car." He locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my
>> driveway and drove off.
>>
>>
>>
>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app and a
>> support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that Uber takes
>> these matters seriously, that the driver would be re-notified of his
>> obligations and that the driver would have to re-affirm his understanding
>> of
>> the law and Uber's policy, and that he must allow service dogs to ride.
>> The
>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination from the
>> Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no consequences to
>> the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide dog user. Uber's
>> software does not even allow me an opportunity to rate this driver as I was
>> not charged. The driver will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request from
>> me or from my home address again. He simply gets away with this and the
>> Uber pool of drivers available to me is down by 1.
>>
>>
>>
>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
>> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Edward Rizzuto
>>
>> (530) 570-7000
>>
>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:44 -0500
> From: "NAGDU President" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <019201d29909$d4bac110$7e304330$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Ed,
>
> I have forwarded your message to Tim Elder, the NFB's lead attorney
> on our litigation with Uber and its settlement agreement. I am certain Mr.
> elder will be in touch with you via email.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
>
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc. (NAGDU)
> National Federation of the Blind
> (813) 626-2789
> President at NAGDU.ORG
>
>
> The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> expectations because low expectations create barriers between blind people
> and our dreams. You can live the life you want! Blindness is not what holds
> you back.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 1:56 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Ed Rizzuto
> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
>
> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well, for the
> most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>
>
>
> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate any
> help in how to proceed.
>
>
>
> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a ride to
> my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up by a driver, I
> waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into my driveway. I
> approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver stated through the
> passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I explainted that I am
> blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I explained the law and explained
> Uber's policy. The driver just kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't
> ride in my car." He locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my
> driveway and drove off.
>
>
>
> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app and a
> support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that Uber takes
> these matters seriously, that the driver would be re-notified of his
> obligations and that the driver would have to re-affirm his understanding of
> the law and Uber's policy, and that he must allow service dogs to ride. The
> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination from the
> Uber program if he committed another violation.
>
>
>
> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no consequences to
> the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide dog user. Uber's
> software does not even allow me an opportunity to rate this driver as I was
> not charged. The driver will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request from
> me or from my home address again. He simply gets away with this and the
> Uber pool of drivers available to me is down by 1.
>
>
>
> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
> Edward Rizzuto
>
> (530) 570-7000
>
> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:20:49 -0600
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <024101d2990a$432ed0f0$c98c72d0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Of course there would be less ability to prove discrimination if you let the
> drivers know you are bringing a dog. You can't file a discrimination claim
> as easily if you have volunteered that you have a dog. The driver can assume
> you are telling him so he can make a choice. I understand what you are
> saying about letting them know up front that you have a dog, but it is truly
> harmful in the big picture. We need to resolve this issue, and, sadly, that
> isn't the way to do it. You have a right to bring the dog. The drivers are
> required to take the dog ... end of story. If they are being trained as Uber
> claims, they know this and they have taken the job anyway. We all do have
> moments when we take the high, more efficient road, but when we do that, I
> wonder if we are really thinking of the brothers and sisters who follow us?
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 1:15 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Joe Orozco <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
> Has anyone ever used the Contact feature to alert the Uber or Lyft driver to
> the presence of a guide dog? I know, I know, we shouldn't have to do this,
> but in terms of efficiency, I would rather we get the potential
> discrimination out of the way up front so I can go about my business and
> file my complaint. I understand it becomes harder to prove discrimination if
> you handle it this way, but I have never had a driver cancel on me thus far.
> I would imagine they would if the dog was a problem? I don't know. I'm
> curious about people's thoughts though.--Joe
>
> On 3/9/17, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> There has been a class action settlement gainst Uber on these issues
>> in California, and it hold nationally. The National Federation of the
>> Blind has lawyers, but I can't remember how to reach them. One is Tim
>> Elder, and I can't remember the name of the other. We will get you the
>> information so that you can contact them.
>>
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 12:56 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
>> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well,
>> for the most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate
>> any help in how to proceed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a
>> ride to my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up
>> by a driver, I waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into
>> my driveway. I approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver
>> stated through the passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I
>> explainted that I am blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I
>> explained the law and explained Uber's policy. The driver just kept
>> repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't ride in my car." He locked
>> the rear passenger door. He backed out of my driveway and drove off.
>>
>>
>>
>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app
>> and a support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that
>> Uber takes these matters seriously, that the driver would be
>> re-notified of his obligations and that the driver would have to
>> re-affirm his understanding of the law and Uber's policy, and that he
>> must allow service dogs to ride.
>> The
>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination
>> from the Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no
>> consequences to the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide
>> dog user. Uber's software does not even allow me an opportunity to
>> rate this driver as I was not charged. The driver will undoubtedly
>> never pick up a ride request from me or from my home address again.
>> He simply gets away with this and the Uber pool of drivers available to me
> is down by 1.
>>
>>
>>
>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
>> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Edward Rizzuto
>>
>> (530) 570-7000
>>
>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:22:27 -0500
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <62891273-F1E3-4C9D-99D4-492135CE43B5 at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Wow, someone at Uber read their policy differently than I understood it. Which is to say, a refusal that blatant would result in an immediate termination. In any case, per their policy, they are obligated to tell you what action was ultimately taken. Shame you didn't get video. Definitely refer this to Tim Elder, as they and we are tracking refusals.
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>
>
>
>
>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 1:56 PM, Ed Rizzuto via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
>> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well, for the
>> most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate any
>> help in how to proceed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a ride to
>> my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up by a driver, I
>> waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into my driveway. I
>> approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver stated through the
>> passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I explainted that I am
>> blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I explained the law and explained
>> Uber's policy. The driver just kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't
>> ride in my car." He locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my
>> driveway and drove off.
>>
>>
>>
>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app and a
>> support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that Uber takes
>> these matters seriously, that the driver would be re-notified of his
>> obligations and that the driver would have to re-affirm his understanding of
>> the law and Uber's policy, and that he must allow service dogs to ride. The
>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination from the
>> Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no consequences to
>> the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide dog user. Uber's
>> software does not even allow me an opportunity to rate this driver as I was
>> not charged. The driver will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request from
>> me or from my home address again. He simply gets away with this and the
>> Uber pool of drivers available to me is down by 1.
>>
>>
>>
>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
>> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Edward Rizzuto
>>
>> (530) 570-7000
>>
>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:23:36 -0500
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <4CD8820B-17D7-4EBB-9DE9-C47611FF4969 at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Screw that. If they're going to refuse me, they're going to use their time, and their gas, to do it. Not only am I not obligated to tell them I have a dog, I'm not going to give them an easy out either.
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>
>
>
>
>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 2:15 PM, Joe Orozco via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone ever used the Contact feature to alert the Uber or Lyft
>> driver to the presence of a guide dog? I know, I know, we shouldn't
>> have to do this, but in terms of efficiency, I would rather we get the
>> potential discrimination out of the way up front so I can go about my
>> business and file my complaint. I understand it becomes harder to
>> prove discrimination if you handle it this way, but I have never had a
>> driver cancel on me thus far. I would imagine they would if the dog
>> was a problem? I don't know. I'm curious about people's thoughts
>> though.--Joe
>>
>> On 3/9/17, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> There has been a class action settlement gainst Uber on these issues in
>>> California, and it hold nationally. The National Federation of the Blind
>>> has
>>> lawyers, but I can't remember how to reach them. One is Tim Elder, and I
>>> can't remember the name of the other. We will get you the information so
>>> that you can contact them.
>>>
>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 12:56 PM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
>>> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well, for the
>>> most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate any
>>> help in how to proceed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a ride to
>>> my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up by a driver, I
>>> waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into my driveway. I
>>> approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver stated through the
>>> passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I explainted that I am
>>> blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I explained the law and explained
>>> Uber's policy. The driver just kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't
>>> ride in my car." He locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my
>>> driveway and drove off.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app and a
>>> support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that Uber takes
>>> these matters seriously, that the driver would be re-notified of his
>>> obligations and that the driver would have to re-affirm his understanding
>>> of
>>> the law and Uber's policy, and that he must allow service dogs to ride.
>>> The
>>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination from the
>>> Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no consequences to
>>> the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide dog user. Uber's
>>> software does not even allow me an opportunity to rate this driver as I was
>>> not charged. The driver will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request from
>>> me or from my home address again. He simply gets away with this and the
>>> Uber pool of drivers available to me is down by 1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
>>> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Edward Rizzuto
>>>
>>> (530) 570-7000
>>>
>>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:31:13 -0600
> From: "Raul A. Gallegos" <raul at raulgallegos.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <a0277c75-715e-71ff-b1fd-c73b6dfb224e at raulgallegos.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Hello Joe, no I don't do this. What I do however, is have my phone on
> hand, ready to record. So, if driver shows up and cancels on me, I tell
> him that I'm going to get it on camera. I also try to work with them,
> not against them by telling them they have rights too. For example, if
> my dog were not a service animal or if my dog were acting up, barking,
> biting, ETC, he would have the right to refuse me.
>
> I don't generally tell the Uber drivers I am blind or have a dog unless
> it becomes a matter of finding me.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> --
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Assistive Technology Trainer - RGA Tech Solutions
> Voice and Text: 832.554.7285
> Office: 832.639.4477
> Personal Email: raul at raulgallegos.com
> Work Email: training at rgats.com
> Twitter: @rga7285 and @RGATrainer
>
> ?Any teacher that can be replaced with a computer, deserves to be.? -
> David Thornburg
>
> On 3/9/2017 1:15 PM, Joe Orozco via NAGDU wrote:
>> Has anyone ever used the Contact feature to alert the Uber or Lyft
>> driver to the presence of a guide dog? I know, I know, we shouldn't
>> have to do this, but in terms of efficiency, I would rather we get the
>> potential discrimination out of the way up front so I can go about my
>> business and file my complaint. I understand it becomes harder to
>> prove discrimination if you handle it this way, but I have never had a
>> driver cancel on me thus far. I would imagine they would if the dog
>> was a problem? I don't know. I'm curious about people's thoughts
>> though.--Joe
>>
>> On 3/9/17, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> There has been a class action settlement gainst Uber on these issues in
>>> California, and it hold nationally. The National Federation of the Blind
>>> has
>>> lawyers, but I can't remember how to reach them. One is Tim Elder, and I
>>> can't remember the name of the other. We will get you the information so
>>> that you can contact them.
>>>
>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto via
>>> NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 12:56 PM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
>>> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well, for the
>>> most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate any
>>> help in how to proceed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a ride to
>>> my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up by a driver, I
>>> waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into my driveway. I
>>> approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver stated through the
>>> passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I explainted that I am
>>> blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I explained the law and explained
>>> Uber's policy. The driver just kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't
>>> ride in my car." He locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my
>>> driveway and drove off.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app and a
>>> support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that Uber takes
>>> these matters seriously, that the driver would be re-notified of his
>>> obligations and that the driver would have to re-affirm his understanding
>>> of
>>> the law and Uber's policy, and that he must allow service dogs to ride.
>>> The
>>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination from the
>>> Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no consequences to
>>> the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide dog user. Uber's
>>> software does not even allow me an opportunity to rate this driver as I was
>>> not charged. The driver will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request from
>>> me or from my home address again. He simply gets away with this and the
>>> Uber pool of drivers available to me is down by 1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
>>> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Edward Rizzuto
>>>
>>> (530) 570-7000
>>>
>>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/raul%40raulgallegos.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:43:39 -0600
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <02b301d2990d$73adcbc0$5b096340$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I am going to have to try playing around with how much food Belto gets and when I get I think. I have not quite figured out how much to feed him in terms of that in the morning and at night since he gets one cup both times.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 11:26 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: david at bakerinet.com; Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
>
>
>
> I have the same issue. Claire Rose is 41 moths old. She urinates in a regular spot in the morning, but will not defecate until she is about 50 yards into walking outside. That's not much of a problem. The two additional stops to defecate at about 500 and 1,000 to 3,000 yards, however, are a big problem, especially since they are interspersed with two more stops to urinate (briefly squirt). I can't tell whether she is pulling over to defecate or to urinate, so if I think she just wants to squirt and I don't stop, I find that she has left a poop trail on the sidewalk. If l wait to remove her harness while she is hunching up to defecate, then she stops and won't continue until we get another 20 yards down the street.
> I've worked with my trainer on schedules, diet and adding things to her food. We switched to hydrolyzed protein, which decreased the volume and the odor dramatically, but has not altered the behavior. We added Metamucil, but she vomited every meal that included it about 6 hours after feeding. We added green beans - a bit softer, but no change in behavior. I'm now trying a couple of tablespoons of pumpkin puree, which has also softened the stool somewhat and added a little volume, but, again, no change in behavior. Since I have some residual vision on good days, I can usually handle this even though it is very frustrating. I am more concerned about travel, Since she defecates in harness if I don't stop, I am wondering if this is going to be a problem with flying. In the past, she handled 10 three hour flights with ease, but back then she didn't have this issue.
> Does anyone have any other ideas about changing this pattern of behavior?
> David
> & Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL
> Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> From: "Tracy Carcione via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Date: Thu, March 9, 2017 9:17 am
>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a
>> safe
>
>> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
>>
>
>> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
>
>> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now,
>> which is
>
>> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him
>> along
>
>> until we come to a safe place.
>
>>
>
>> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and
>> I give
>
>> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places
>> he
>
>> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a
>> place of
>
>> my choosing.
>
>>
>
>> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens,
>> and
>
>> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
>>
>
>> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop,
>> I'd
>
>> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
>>
>
>> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting
>> and
>
>> shooing?
>
>>
>
>> Tracy
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> NAGDU mailing list
>
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/david%40bakerinet.c
>> om
>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:46:19 -0600
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <02b501d2990d$d391fbb0$7ab5f310$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I have the same problem around my parents house. Finding a good spot is
> quite difficult unles I want to end up in a neighbor's front yard.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 9:09 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I think being choosy is essential. I'm not looking for grass; I'm looking
> for a curb spot where he won't get run over. Even near home, where there is
> some grass, I want him to go somewhere I pick, and not just anywhere. Seems
> more neighborly, among other things. And more predictable for me. Right
> now, he stops, and I'm wondering is he stopping because there's an obstacle,
> or because he has to go? If we have a particular place, that should cut
> down on the wondering a lot.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 9:35 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I have had the same problem with all my dogs. Belto has been the most
> consistant though where I know that I can only get about three blocks before
> he has to go enroute. I do the same as you and try to get to a spot of my
> choosing, but that is a long shot at best, and around where I live, being
> choosey is not a good thing because there is not a lot of grass around in
> safe areas.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 8:17 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a safe
> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now, which is
> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him along
> until we come to a safe place.
>
> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and I give
> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places he
> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a place of
> my choosing.
>
> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens, and
> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop, I'd
> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting and
> shooing?
>
> Tracy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:50:23 -0500
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <007301d2990e$64189450$2c49bcf0$@access.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I experimented for 2 months or so with feeding most of Krokus food in the
> morning, with a smaller portion in the evening. I kept a log of poop times,
> which showed that the change in feeding did not make any real difference, so
> I went back to half-and-half, which is easier for me to measure.
> Feel free to try yourself, though. I found the log very helpful in showing
> whether it was having the desired effect.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:44 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I am going to have to try playing around with how much food Belto gets and
> when I get I think. I have not quite figured out how much to feed him in
> terms of that in the morning and at night since he gets one cup both times.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 11:26 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: david at bakerinet.com; Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
>
>
>
> I have the same issue. Claire Rose is 41 moths old. She urinates in a
> regular spot in the morning, but will not defecate until she is about 50
> yards into walking outside. That's not much of a problem. The two
> additional stops to defecate at about 500 and 1,000 to 3,000 yards, however,
> are a big problem, especially since they are interspersed with two more
> stops to urinate (briefly squirt). I can't tell whether she is pulling over
> to defecate or to urinate, so if I think she just wants to squirt and I
> don't stop, I find that she has left a poop trail on the sidewalk. If l
> wait to remove her harness while she is hunching up to defecate, then she
> stops and won't continue until we get another 20 yards down the street.
> I've worked with my trainer on schedules, diet and adding things to her
> food. We switched to hydrolyzed protein, which decreased the volume and the
> odor dramatically, but has not altered the behavior. We added Metamucil,
> but she vomited every meal that included it about 6 hours after feeding. We
> added green beans - a bit softer, but no change in behavior. I'm now trying
> a couple of tablespoons of pumpkin puree, which has also softened the stool
> somewhat and added a little volume, but, again, no change in behavior.
> Since I have some residual vision on good days, I can usually handle this
> even though it is very frustrating. I am more concerned about travel,
> Since she defecates in harness if I don't stop, I am wondering if this is
> going to be a problem with flying. In the past, she handled 10 three hour
> flights with ease, but back then she didn't have this issue.
> Does anyone have any other ideas about changing this pattern of behavior?
> David
> & Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL
> Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> From: "Tracy Carcione via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Date: Thu, March 9, 2017 9:17 am
>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a
>> safe
>
>> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
>>
>
>> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
>
>> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now,
>> which is
>
>> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him
>> along
>
>> until we come to a safe place.
>
>>
>
>> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and
>> I give
>
>> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places
>> he
>
>> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a
>> place of
>
>> my choosing.
>
>>
>
>> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens,
>> and
>
>> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
>>
>
>> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop,
>> I'd
>
>> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
>>
>
>> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting
>> and
>
>> shooing?
>
>>
>
>> Tracy
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> NAGDU mailing list
>
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/david%40bakerinet.c
>> om
>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:57:57 -0600
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <027001d2990f$7319de40$594d9ac0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> When my dog starts to wander at the house I start circling him and won't let
> him go to the neighbor's front yard. You have control over that I think, or
> usually anyway.
> Cindy Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 1:46 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I have the same problem around my parents house. Finding a good spot is
> quite difficult unles I want to end up in a neighbor's front yard.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 9:09 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I think being choosy is essential. I'm not looking for grass; I'm looking
> for a curb spot where he won't get run over. Even near home, where there is
> some grass, I want him to go somewhere I pick, and not just anywhere. Seems
> more neighborly, among other things. And more predictable for me. Right
> now, he stops, and I'm wondering is he stopping because there's an obstacle,
> or because he has to go? If we have a particular place, that should cut
> down on the wondering a lot.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 9:35 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I have had the same problem with all my dogs. Belto has been the most
> consistant though where I know that I can only get about three blocks before
> he has to go enroute. I do the same as you and try to get to a spot of my
> choosing, but that is a long shot at best, and around where I live, being
> choosey is not a good thing because there is not a lot of grass around in
> safe areas.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 8:17 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a safe
> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now, which is
> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him along
> until we come to a safe place.
>
> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and I give
> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places he
> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a place of
> my choosing.
>
> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens, and
> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop, I'd
> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting and
> shooing?
>
> Tracy
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:59:37 -0600
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <027801d2990f$ae9e8830$0bdb9890$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> A log may be a good idea anyway because it issn't on all trips, right? I
> found that if I allowed my dog to go wherever she wanted to, she would stop
> at the same place again, so it was sort of becoming a habit. I always pulled
> her past there and made her work until she wouldn't work anymore. Then if
> she did and we completed the trip, I took her outside as sort of a reward as
> well as a relief. I don't think it completely helped though.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 1:50 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I experimented for 2 months or so with feeding most of Krokus food in the
> morning, with a smaller portion in the evening. I kept a log of poop times,
> which showed that the change in feeding did not make any real difference, so
> I went back to half-and-half, which is easier for me to measure.
> Feel free to try yourself, though. I found the log very helpful in showing
> whether it was having the desired effect.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:44 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I am going to have to try playing around with how much food Belto gets and
> when I get I think. I have not quite figured out how much to feed him in
> terms of that in the morning and at night since he gets one cup both times.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 11:26 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: david at bakerinet.com; Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
>
>
>
> I have the same issue. Claire Rose is 41 moths old. She urinates in a
> regular spot in the morning, but will not defecate until she is about 50
> yards into walking outside. That's not much of a problem. The two
> additional stops to defecate at about 500 and 1,000 to 3,000 yards, however,
> are a big problem, especially since they are interspersed with two more
> stops to urinate (briefly squirt). I can't tell whether she is pulling over
> to defecate or to urinate, so if I think she just wants to squirt and I
> don't stop, I find that she has left a poop trail on the sidewalk. If l
> wait to remove her harness while she is hunching up to defecate, then she
> stops and won't continue until we get another 20 yards down the street.
> I've worked with my trainer on schedules, diet and adding things to her
> food. We switched to hydrolyzed protein, which decreased the volume and the
> odor dramatically, but has not altered the behavior. We added Metamucil,
> but she vomited every meal that included it about 6 hours after feeding. We
> added green beans - a bit softer, but no change in behavior. I'm now trying
> a couple of tablespoons of pumpkin puree, which has also softened the stool
> somewhat and added a little volume, but, again, no change in behavior.
> Since I have some residual vision on good days, I can usually handle this
> even though it is very frustrating. I am more concerned about travel, Since
> she defecates in harness if I don't stop, I am wondering if this is going to
> be a problem with flying. In the past, she handled 10 three hour flights
> with ease, but back then she didn't have this issue.
> Does anyone have any other ideas about changing this pattern of behavior?
> David
> & Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL
> Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> From: "Tracy Carcione via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Date: Thu, March 9, 2017 9:17 am
>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a
>> safe
>
>> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
>>
>
>> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
>
>> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now,
>> which is
>
>> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him
>> along
>
>> until we come to a safe place.
>
>>
>
>> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and
>> I give
>
>> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places
>> he
>
>> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a
>> place of
>
>> my choosing.
>
>>
>
>> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens,
>> and
>
>> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
>>
>
>> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop,
>> I'd
>
>> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
>>
>
>> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting
>> and
>
>> shooing?
>
>>
>
>> Tracy
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> NAGDU mailing list
>
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/david%40bakerinet.c
>> om
>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 12:17:03 -0800
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Timothy Elder'" <telder at trelegal.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <000a01d29912$1e42a1b0$5ac7e510$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Ed et al,
>
> Under the terms of the class action settlement the driver totally violated
> the new Uber requirements. The key is that the driver was specifically told
> that the animal was a guide dog. The driver cannot use the excuse that he
> did not know.
>
> Under the terms of the settlement the driver's actions are grounds for
> IMMEDIATE DISMESSAL. Uber's response was wrong and inappropriate.
>
> I am copying Tim Elder on this email. Tim was the lead counsel on the Uber
> case. I just spoke with him about this and confirmed what I stated above
> before responding. If ANYONE encounters guide dog issues with Uber they
> should IMMEDIATELY notify Tim at Timothy Elder telder at trelegal.com.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 10:56 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
> Hi folks,
>
>
>
> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well, for the
> most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>
>
>
> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate any
> help in how to proceed.
>
>
>
> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a ride to
> my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up by a driver, I
> waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into my driveway. I
> approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver stated through the
> passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I explainted that I am
> blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I explained the law and explained
> Uber's policy. The driver just kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't
> ride in my car." He locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my
> driveway and drove off.
>
>
>
> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app and a
> support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that Uber takes
> these matters seriously, that the driver would be re-notified of his
> obligations and that the driver would have to re-affirm his understanding of
> the law and Uber's policy, and that he must allow service dogs to ride. The
> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination from the
> Uber program if he committed another violation.
>
>
>
> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no consequences to
> the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide dog user. Uber's
> software does not even allow me an opportunity to rate this driver as I was
> not charged. The driver will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request from
> me or from my home address again. He simply gets away with this and the
> Uber pool of drivers available to me is down by 1.
>
>
>
> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
> Edward Rizzuto
>
> (530) 570-7000
>
> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhingson.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:26:48 -0600
> From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <035c01d29913$7aee1f60$70ca5e20$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Yep a log does help but not completely.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 2:00 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> A log may be a good idea anyway because it issn't on all trips, right? I
> found that if I allowed my dog to go wherever she wanted to, she would stop
> at the same place again, so it was sort of becoming a habit. I always pulled
> her past there and made her work until she wouldn't work anymore. Then if
> she did and we completed the trip, I took her outside as sort of a reward as
> well as a relief. I don't think it completely helped though.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 1:50 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I experimented for 2 months or so with feeding most of Krokus food in the
> morning, with a smaller portion in the evening. I kept a log of poop times,
> which showed that the change in feeding did not make any real difference, so
> I went back to half-and-half, which is easier for me to measure.
> Feel free to try yourself, though. I found the log very helpful in showing
> whether it was having the desired effect.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:44 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I am going to have to try playing around with how much food Belto gets and
> when I get I think. I have not quite figured out how much to feed him in
> terms of that in the morning and at night since he gets one cup both times.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 11:26 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: david at bakerinet.com; Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
>
>
>
> I have the same issue. Claire Rose is 41 moths old. She urinates in a
> regular spot in the morning, but will not defecate until she is about 50
> yards into walking outside. That's not much of a problem. The two
> additional stops to defecate at about 500 and 1,000 to 3,000 yards, however,
> are a big problem, especially since they are interspersed with two more
> stops to urinate (briefly squirt). I can't tell whether she is pulling over
> to defecate or to urinate, so if I think she just wants to squirt and I
> don't stop, I find that she has left a poop trail on the sidewalk. If l
> wait to remove her harness while she is hunching up to defecate, then she
> stops and won't continue until we get another 20 yards down the street.
> I've worked with my trainer on schedules, diet and adding things to her
> food. We switched to hydrolyzed protein, which decreased the volume and the
> odor dramatically, but has not altered the behavior. We added Metamucil,
> but she vomited every meal that included it about 6 hours after feeding. We
> added green beans - a bit softer, but no change in behavior. I'm now trying
> a couple of tablespoons of pumpkin puree, which has also softened the stool
> somewhat and added a little volume, but, again, no change in behavior.
> Since I have some residual vision on good days, I can usually handle this
> even though it is very frustrating. I am more concerned about travel, Since
> she defecates in harness if I don't stop, I am wondering if this is going to
> be a problem with flying. In the past, she handled 10 three hour flights
> with ease, but back then she didn't have this issue.
> Does anyone have any other ideas about changing this pattern of behavior?
> David
> & Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL
> Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> From: "Tracy Carcione via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Date: Thu, March 9, 2017 9:17 am
>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a
>> safe
>
>> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
>>
>
>> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
>
>> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now,
>> which is
>
>> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him
>> along
>
>> until we come to a safe place.
>
>>
>
>> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and
>> I give
>
>> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places
>> he
>
>> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a
>> place of
>
>> my choosing.
>
>>
>
>> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens,
>> and
>
>> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
>>
>
>> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop,
>> I'd
>
>> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
>>
>
>> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting
>> and
>
>> shooing?
>
>>
>
>> Tracy
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> NAGDU mailing list
>
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/david%40bakerinet.c
>> om
>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:30:17 -0600
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID: <029601d29913$f7c18950$e7449bf0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> What do you mean "not completely." I realize it isn't going to make the dog
> stop deficating where it isn't preferred, but you can log such that you know
> what was going on immediately before and after. That can help you possibly
> learn things about the behavior, factors that would help you more easily end
> the behavior.
>
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 2:27 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> Yep a log does help but not completely.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 2:00 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> A log may be a good idea anyway because it issn't on all trips, right? I
> found that if I allowed my dog to go wherever she wanted to, she would stop
> at the same place again, so it was sort of becoming a habit. I always pulled
> her past there and made her work until she wouldn't work anymore. Then if
> she did and we completed the trip, I took her outside as sort of a reward as
> well as a relief. I don't think it completely helped though.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 1:50 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I experimented for 2 months or so with feeding most of Krokus food in the
> morning, with a smaller portion in the evening. I kept a log of poop times,
> which showed that the change in feeding did not make any real difference, so
> I went back to half-and-half, which is easier for me to measure.
> Feel free to try yourself, though. I found the log very helpful in showing
> whether it was having the desired effect.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:44 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
> I am going to have to try playing around with how much food Belto gets and
> when I get I think. I have not quite figured out how much to feed him in
> terms of that in the morning and at night since he gets one cup both times.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 11:26 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: david at bakerinet.com; Tracy Carcione
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>
>
>
>
> I have the same issue. Claire Rose is 41 moths old. She urinates in a
> regular spot in the morning, but will not defecate until she is about 50
> yards into walking outside. That's not much of a problem. The two
> additional stops to defecate at about 500 and 1,000 to 3,000 yards, however,
> are a big problem, especially since they are interspersed with two more
> stops to urinate (briefly squirt). I can't tell whether she is pulling over
> to defecate or to urinate, so if I think she just wants to squirt and I
> don't stop, I find that she has left a poop trail on the sidewalk. If l
> wait to remove her harness while she is hunching up to defecate, then she
> stops and won't continue until we get another 20 yards down the street.
> I've worked with my trainer on schedules, diet and adding things to her
> food. We switched to hydrolyzed protein, which decreased the volume and the
> odor dramatically, but has not altered the behavior. We added Metamucil,
> but she vomited every meal that included it about 6 hours after feeding. We
> added green beans - a bit softer, but no change in behavior. I'm now trying
> a couple of tablespoons of pumpkin puree, which has also softened the stool
> somewhat and added a little volume, but, again, no change in behavior.
> Since I have some residual vision on good days, I can usually handle this
> even though it is very frustrating. I am more concerned about travel, Since
> she defecates in harness if I don't stop, I am wondering if this is going to
> be a problem with flying. In the past, she handled 10 three hour flights
> with ease, but back then she didn't have this issue.
> Does anyone have any other ideas about changing this pattern of behavior?
> David
> & Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL
> Original Message ----------------------------
> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> From: "Tracy Carcione via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Date: Thu, March 9, 2017 9:17 am
>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a
>> safe
>
>> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>
>>
>
>> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
>
>> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now,
>> which is
>
>> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him
>> along
>
>> until we come to a safe place.
>
>>
>
>> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and
>> I give
>
>> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places
>> he
>
>> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a
>> place of
>
>> my choosing.
>
>>
>
>> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens,
>> and
>
>> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>
>>
>
>> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop,
>> I'd
>
>> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>
>>
>
>> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting
>> and
>
>> shooing?
>
>>
>
>> Tracy
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> NAGDU mailing list
>
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> NAGDU:
>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/david%40bakerinet.c
>> om
>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
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>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:12:51 -0800
> From: "L Gwizdak" <leg1950 at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>, "'Timothy Elder'"
> <telder at trelegal.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <05007A99AB0C4B3C974D741AB8C9A568 at lindagwizdak>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Michael,
> First, it was nice to meet you at the CSUN restaurant NFB gathering last
> Tues. in San Diego!
>
> I see in your post that UBER drivers can get terminated for denying a guide
> dog. I don't use UBER myself but have ridden it with Lisa I, our Chapter
> president. I got to experience a denial on Christmas Eve when we were going
> to a church service. Lisa sent an email to some UBER ADA person in Chicago
> and she emailed Tim Elder. She did these emails after calling UBER to say
> we were denied a ride and we needed another driver. Meanwhile, we were
> outside stuck in the rain.
>
> What I need to know is do we still do the steps we took before emailing Tim
> Elder? As for the driver getting canned, I have no idea. Is UBER supposed
> to tell us if the driver got canned or is it good enough to be told that the
> issue has been taken care of. I'm like, what does that mean???
>
> So, if you can clarify this for me, I'd appreciate it.
>
> Lyn and Aristotle
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Hingson via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>; "'Timothy Elder'"
> <telder at trelegal.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 12:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
>
>> Ed et al,
>>
>> Under the terms of the class action settlement the driver totally violated
>> the new Uber requirements. The key is that the driver was specifically
>> told
>> that the animal was a guide dog. The driver cannot use the excuse that he
>> did not know.
>>
>> Under the terms of the settlement the driver's actions are grounds for
>> IMMEDIATE DISMESSAL. Uber's response was wrong and inappropriate.
>>
>> I am copying Tim Elder on this email. Tim was the lead counsel on the Uber
>> case. I just spoke with him about this and confirmed what I stated above
>> before responding. If ANYONE encounters guide dog issues with Uber they
>> should IMMEDIATELY notify Tim at Timothy Elder telder at trelegal.com.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 10:56 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
>> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well, for
>> the
>> most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate any
>> help in how to proceed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a ride to
>> my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up by a driver,
>> I
>> waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into my driveway. I
>> approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver stated through the
>> passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I explainted that I am
>> blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I explained the law and explained
>> Uber's policy. The driver just kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog
>> can't
>> ride in my car." He locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my
>> driveway and drove off.
>>
>>
>>
>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app and a
>> support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that Uber takes
>> these matters seriously, that the driver would be re-notified of his
>> obligations and that the driver would have to re-affirm his understanding
>> of
>> the law and Uber's policy, and that he must allow service dogs to ride.
>> The
>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination from
>> the
>> Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no consequences
>> to
>> the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide dog user. Uber's
>> software does not even allow me an opportunity to rate this driver as I
>> was
>> not charged. The driver will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request
>> from
>> me or from my home address again. He simply gets away with this and the
>> Uber pool of drivers available to me is down by 1.
>>
>>
>>
>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
>> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Edward Rizzuto
>>
>> (530) 570-7000
>>
>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:18:34 -0800
> From: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [NAGDU] Question For Musicians
> Message-ID: <8D1A273A-53DE-4D15-A36C-5FFAE96E762F at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hello, Friends:
>
> I have a question for those of you who perform. I am going to be traveling next month to play a role in a show. This will take place over three weekends and in several different locations. In order to save money, I will be staying at friends' houses.
>
> It would not be appropriate to have Demi on stage with me, but I definitely need to travel with her to and from the venues. I have already talked to the director of this show about leaving Demi in her portable kennel in the green room during the shows and dress rehearsals, or else having an usher watch her, and he says this would be all right. I am wondering, though, what others have done in this situation. Are there any other ways y'all have found to deal with performances like this?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Rachel
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:31:07 -0800
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'L Gwizdak'" <leg1950 at cox.net>, "'NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Timothy Elder'" <telder at trelegal.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <000601d2991c$76cb1380$64613a80$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi Lyn,
>
> Good question. The important thing to know is that if you are going to file
> a complaint it is important to make certain that when a driver tells you
> that he or she is not going to transport you because of your dog that you
> specifically inform the driver that the dog is a guide dog and that you are
> blind. Essentially you use the same logic that we use in any ADA situation.
> "I am blind, this is a guide dog and the dog is trained to guide me and
> therefore my guide dog is to be transported under the law." If the driver
> refuses then by all means file a complaint, BUT also immediately contact Tim
> Elder. DO NOT WAIT. Any Uber driver who knowingly denies you a ride when you
> are accompanied by a guide dog is supposed to be dismissed immediately under
> the terms of our settlement with Uber.
>
> According to the settlement ALL Uber drivers are to have been required to go
> through specific service animal training and they should by now have been
> required to acknowledge the training by agreeing that they WILL transport
> any blind person with a guide dog. If they do not agree then they are to be
> summarily terminated. EVERY driver MUST agree to transport guide dogs or
> they cannot drive for Uber. Again, if a driver thus denies a ride to a blind
> person with a guide dog where the passenger specifically informs the driver
> refusing a ride that the passenger is blind and that the dog is a guide dog
> then Uber is required to dismiss that driver with NO second chance.
>
> Lyn, this is a long answer, but I want everyone to make certain that they
> know the rules. Again, email Tim immediately and also file the appropriate
> complaint. Tim and the NFB evaluators will address the issue.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: L Gwizdak [mailto:leg1950 at cox.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:13 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>; 'Timothy Elder'
> <telder at trelegal.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
> Hi Michael,
> First, it was nice to meet you at the CSUN restaurant NFB gathering last
> Tues. in San Diego!
>
> I see in your post that UBER drivers can get terminated for denying a guide
> dog. I don't use UBER myself but have ridden it with Lisa I, our Chapter
> president. I got to experience a denial on Christmas Eve when we were going
> to a church service. Lisa sent an email to some UBER ADA person in Chicago
> and she emailed Tim Elder. She did these emails after calling UBER to say
> we were denied a ride and we needed another driver. Meanwhile, we were
> outside stuck in the rain.
>
> What I need to know is do we still do the steps we took before emailing Tim
> Elder? As for the driver getting canned, I have no idea. Is UBER supposed
> to tell us if the driver got canned or is it good enough to be told that the
> issue has been taken care of. I'm like, what does that mean???
>
> So, if you can clarify this for me, I'd appreciate it.
>
> Lyn and Aristotle
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Hingson via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>; "'Timothy Elder'"
> <telder at trelegal.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 12:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
>
>> Ed et al,
>>
>> Under the terms of the class action settlement the driver totally
>> violated the new Uber requirements. The key is that the driver was
>> specifically told that the animal was a guide dog. The driver cannot
>> use the excuse that he did not know.
>>
>> Under the terms of the settlement the driver's actions are grounds for
>> IMMEDIATE DISMESSAL. Uber's response was wrong and inappropriate.
>>
>> I am copying Tim Elder on this email. Tim was the lead counsel on the
>> Uber case. I just spoke with him about this and confirmed what I
>> stated above before responding. If ANYONE encounters guide dog issues
>> with Uber they should IMMEDIATELY notify Tim at Timothy Elder
> telder at trelegal.com.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 10:56 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
>> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well,
>> for the most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate
>> any help in how to proceed.
>>
>>
>>
>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a
>> ride to my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up
>> by a driver, I waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into
>> my driveway. I approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver
>> stated through the passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I
>> explainted that I am blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I
>> explained the law and explained Uber's policy. The driver just kept
>> repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't ride in my car." He locked
>> the rear passenger door. He backed out of my driveway and drove off.
>>
>>
>>
>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app
>> and a support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that
>> Uber takes these matters seriously, that the driver would be
>> re-notified of his obligations and that the driver would have to
>> re-affirm his understanding of the law and Uber's policy, and that he
>> must allow service dogs to ride.
>> The
>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination
>> from the Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no
>> consequences to the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide
>> dog user. Uber's software does not even allow me an opportunity to
>> rate this driver as I was not charged. The driver will undoubtedly
>> never pick up a ride request from me or from my home address again.
>> He simply gets away with this and the Uber pool of drivers available
>> to me is down by 1.
>>
>>
>>
>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
>> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Edward Rizzuto
>>
>> (530) 570-7000
>>
>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhings
>> on.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2017 13:51:00 -0800
> From: Robert Stigile <rstigile at gmail.com>
> To: Michael Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <58c1ce47.0a0f620a.fefd7.109a at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Mike,
> You are absolutely correct in this regard.
> The issue is, that some of the drivers do not care if I tell them I have a Guide Dog and that I am blind.
> Also, some of the reps from Uber know and understand the changes from the Lawsuit, and others act as if you are crazy.
> There needs to be more training not only with the drivers, but with Uber employees.
> Thanks,
>
> Robert Stigile, Second Vice-president
> National Federation of the Blind of California
> 818-381-9568
> You Can Live The Life You Want
>
> On Mar 9, 2017 1:31 PM, Michael Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lyn,
>>
>> Good question. The important thing to know is that if you are going to file
>> a complaint it is important to make certain that when a driver tells you
>> that he or she is not going to transport you because of your dog that you
>> specifically inform the driver that the dog is a guide dog and that you are
>> blind. Essentially you use the same logic that we use in any ADA situation.
>> "I am blind, this is a guide dog and the dog is trained to guide me and
>> therefore my guide dog is to be transported under the law." If the driver
>> refuses then by all means file a complaint, BUT also immediately contact Tim
>> Elder. DO NOT WAIT. Any Uber driver who knowingly denies you a ride when you
>> are accompanied by a guide dog is supposed to be dismissed immediately under
>> the terms of our settlement with Uber.
>>
>> According to the settlement ALL Uber drivers are to have been required to go
>> through specific service animal training and they should by now have been
>> required to acknowledge the training by agreeing that they WILL transport
>> any blind person with a guide dog. If they do not agree then they are to be
>> summarily terminated. EVERY driver MUST agree to transport guide dogs or
>> they cannot drive for Uber. Again, if a driver thus denies a ride to a blind
>> person with a guide dog where the passenger specifically informs the driver
>> refusing a ride that the passenger is blind and that the dog is a guide dog
>> then Uber is required to dismiss that driver with NO second chance.
>>
>> Lyn, this is a long answer, but I want everyone to make certain that they
>> know the rules. Again, email Tim immediately and also file the appropriate
>> complaint. Tim and the NFB evaluators will address the issue.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: L Gwizdak [mailto:leg1950 at cox.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:13 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>; 'Timothy Elder'
>> <telder at trelegal.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>> First, it was nice to meet you at the CSUN restaurant NFB gathering last
>> Tues. in San Diego!
>>
>> I see in your post that UBER drivers can get terminated for denying a guide
>> dog.? I don't use UBER myself but have ridden it with Lisa I, our Chapter
>> president.? I got to experience a denial on Christmas Eve when we were going
>> to a church service.? Lisa sent an email to some UBER ADA person in Chicago
>> and she emailed Tim Elder.? She did these emails after calling UBER to say
>> we were denied a ride and we needed another driver.? Meanwhile, we were
>> outside stuck in the rain.
>>
>> What I need to know is do we still do the steps we took before emailing Tim
>> Elder?? As for the driver getting canned, I have no idea.? Is UBER supposed
>> to tell us if the driver got canned or is it good enough to be told that the
>> issue has been taken care of.? I'm like, what does that mean???
>>
>> So, if you can clarify this for me, I'd appreciate it.
>>
>> Lyn and Aristotle
>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
>> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Hingson via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>; "'Timothy Elder'"
>> <telder at trelegal.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 12:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>>
>>> Ed et al,
>>>
>>> Under the terms of the class action settlement the driver totally
>>> violated the new Uber requirements. The key is that the driver was
>>> specifically told that the animal was a guide dog. The driver cannot
>>> use the excuse that he did not know.
>>>
>>> Under the terms of the settlement the driver's actions are grounds for
>>> IMMEDIATE DISMESSAL. Uber's response was wrong and inappropriate.
>>>
>>> I am copying Tim Elder on this email. Tim was the lead counsel on the
>>> Uber case. I just spoke with him about this and confirmed what I
>>> stated above before responding. If ANYONE encounters guide dog issues
>>> with Uber they should IMMEDIATELY notify Tim at Timothy Elder
>> telder at trelegal.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 10:56 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user.? I returned home from
>>> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well,
>>> for the most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate
>>> any help in how to proceed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis.? Last Thursday, I requested a
>>> ride to my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up
>>> by a driver, I waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into
>>> my driveway.? I approached the car with my dog in harness.? The driver
>>> stated through the passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog."? I
>>> explainted that I am blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I
>>> explained the law and? explained Uber's policy. The driver just kept
>>> repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't ride in my car."? He locked
>>> the rear passenger door. He backed out of my driveway and drove off.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app
>>> and a support rep called me several days later.? The rep advised that
>>> Uber takes these matters seriously, that the driver would be
>>> re-notified of his obligations and that the driver would have to
>>> re-affirm his understanding of the law and Uber's policy, and that he
>>> must allow service dogs to ride.
>>> The
>>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination
>>> from the Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no
>>> consequences to the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide
>>> dog user.? Uber's software does not even allow me an opportunity to
>>> rate this driver as I was not charged.? The driver will undoubtedly
>>> never pick up a ride request from me or from my home address again.?
>>> He simply gets away with this and the Uber pool of drivers available
>>> to me is down by 1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
>>> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Edward Rizzuto
>>>
>>> (530) 570-7000
>>>
>>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhings
>>> on.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rstigile%40gmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 13:54:39 -0800
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <002301d2991f$c05186d0$40f49470$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Robert,
>
> Correct. However, Uber's responsibilities are clear under the settlement. If Uber is not fulfilling its obligations then the lawyers will address the issue. They have a process for this.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Stigile via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:51 PM
> To: Michael Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Robert Stigile <rstigile at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
> Mike,
> You are absolutely correct in this regard.
> The issue is, that some of the drivers do not care if I tell them I have a Guide Dog and that I am blind.
> Also, some of the reps from Uber know and understand the changes from the Lawsuit, and others act as if you are crazy.
> There needs to be more training not only with the drivers, but with Uber employees.
> Thanks,
>
> Robert Stigile, Second Vice-president
> National Federation of the Blind of California
> 818-381-9568
> You Can Live The Life You Want
>
> On Mar 9, 2017 1:31 PM, Michael Hingson via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Lyn,
>>
>> Good question. The important thing to know is that if you are going to
>> file a complaint it is important to make certain that when a driver
>> tells you that he or she is not going to transport you because of your
>> dog that you specifically inform the driver that the dog is a guide
>> dog and that you are blind. Essentially you use the same logic that we use in any ADA situation.
>> "I am blind, this is a guide dog and the dog is trained to guide me
>> and therefore my guide dog is to be transported under the law." If the
>> driver refuses then by all means file a complaint, BUT also
>> immediately contact Tim Elder. DO NOT WAIT. Any Uber driver who
>> knowingly denies you a ride when you are accompanied by a guide dog is
>> supposed to be dismissed immediately under the terms of our settlement with Uber.
>>
>> According to the settlement ALL Uber drivers are to have been required
>> to go through specific service animal training and they should by now
>> have been required to acknowledge the training by agreeing that they
>> WILL transport any blind person with a guide dog. If they do not agree
>> then they are to be summarily terminated. EVERY driver MUST agree to
>> transport guide dogs or they cannot drive for Uber. Again, if a driver
>> thus denies a ride to a blind person with a guide dog where the
>> passenger specifically informs the driver refusing a ride that the
>> passenger is blind and that the dog is a guide dog then Uber is required to dismiss that driver with NO second chance.
>>
>> Lyn, this is a long answer, but I want everyone to make certain that
>> they know the rules. Again, email Tim immediately and also file the
>> appropriate complaint. Tim and the NFB evaluators will address the issue.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: L Gwizdak [mailto:leg1950 at cox.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:13 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>; 'Timothy Elder'
>> <telder at trelegal.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>> First, it was nice to meet you at the CSUN restaurant NFB gathering
>> last Tues. in San Diego!
>>
>> I see in your post that UBER drivers can get terminated for denying a
>> guide dog. I don't use UBER myself but have ridden it with Lisa I,
>> our Chapter president. I got to experience a denial on Christmas Eve
>> when we were going to a church service. Lisa sent an email to some
>> UBER ADA person in Chicago and she emailed Tim Elder. She did these
>> emails after calling UBER to say we were denied a ride and we needed
>> another driver. Meanwhile, we were outside stuck in the rain.
>>
>> What I need to know is do we still do the steps we took before
>> emailing Tim Elder? As for the driver getting canned, I have no idea.
>> Is UBER supposed to tell us if the driver got canned or is it good
>> enough to be told that the issue has been taken care of. I'm like, what does that mean???
>>
>> So, if you can clarify this for me, I'd appreciate it.
>>
>> Lyn and Aristotle
>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
>> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Hingson via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>; "'Timothy Elder'"
>> <telder at trelegal.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 12:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>>
>>> Ed et al,
>>>
>>> Under the terms of the class action settlement the driver totally
>>> violated the new Uber requirements. The key is that the driver was
>>> specifically told that the animal was a guide dog. The driver cannot
>>> use the excuse that he did not know.
>>>
>>> Under the terms of the settlement the driver's actions are grounds
>>> for IMMEDIATE DISMESSAL. Uber's response was wrong and inappropriate.
>>>
>>> I am copying Tim Elder on this email. Tim was the lead counsel on
>>> the Uber case. I just spoke with him about this and confirmed what I
>>> stated above before responding. If ANYONE encounters guide dog
>>> issues with Uber they should IMMEDIATELY notify Tim at Timothy Elder
>> telder at trelegal.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed
>>> Rizzuto via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 10:56 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home
>>> from training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going
>>> well, for the most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd
>>> appreciate any help in how to proceed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a
>>> ride to my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up
>>> by a driver, I waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into
>>> my driveway. I approached the car with my dog in harness. The
>>> driver stated through the passenger side window: "I'm not taking the
>>> dog." I explainted that I am blind and that the dog is my guide
>>> dog. I explained the law and explained Uber's policy. The driver
>>> just kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't ride in my car."
>>> He locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my driveway and drove off.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app
>>> and a support rep called me several days later. The rep advised
>>> that Uber takes these matters seriously, that the driver would be
>>> re-notified of his obligations and that the driver would have to
>>> re-affirm his understanding of the law and Uber's policy, and that
>>> he must allow service dogs to ride.
>>> The
>>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination
>>> from the Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no
>>> consequences to the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved
>>> guide dog user. Uber's software does not even allow me an
>>> opportunity to rate this driver as I was not charged. The driver
>>> will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request from me or from my home address again.
>>> He simply gets away with this and the Uber pool of drivers available
>>> to me is down by 1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've
>>> experienced similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Edward Rizzuto
>>>
>>> (530) 570-7000
>>>
>>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhin
>>> gs
>>> on.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rstigile%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhingson.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 16:01:32 -0600
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Question For Musicians
> Message-ID: <02c201d29920$b6992a20$23cb7e60$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> What do you do in your perforrmances? I have forgotten. I play the organ.
> Granted, I was not professional, but I always took my dog on stage with me
> and I tied him/her to the organ bench.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rachel Grider via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 3:19 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Question For Musicians
>
> Hello, Friends:
>
> I have a question for those of you who perform. I am going to be traveling
> next month to play a role in a show. This will take place over three
> weekends and in several different locations. In order to save money, I will
> be staying at friends' houses.
>
> It would not be appropriate to have Demi on stage with me, but I definitely
> need to travel with her to and from the venues. I have already talked to the
> director of this show about leaving Demi in her portable kennel in the green
> room during the shows and dress rehearsals, or else having an usher watch
> her, and he says this would be all right. I am wondering, though, what
> others have done in this situation. Are there any other ways y'all have
> found to deal with performances like this?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Rachel
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:06:54 -0800
> From: "L Gwizdak" <leg1950 at cox.net>
> To: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>, "'NAGDU Mailing List,
> the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Timothy Elder'" <telder at trelegal.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <83C3251431424C87BAE5284D2CE53767 at lindagwizdak>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Oh yes, Michael, we make sure to inform the driver that we are blind and the
> dog is a guide dog trained for guiding the blind. Thanks.
>
> Lyn and Aristotle
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'L Gwizdak'" <leg1950 at cox.net>; "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National
> Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Timothy Elder'" <telder at trelegal.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:31 PM
> Subject: RE: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
>
>> Hi Lyn,
>>
>> Good question. The important thing to know is that if you are going to
>> file
>> a complaint it is important to make certain that when a driver tells you
>> that he or she is not going to transport you because of your dog that you
>> specifically inform the driver that the dog is a guide dog and that you
>> are
>> blind. Essentially you use the same logic that we use in any ADA
>> situation.
>> "I am blind, this is a guide dog and the dog is trained to guide me and
>> therefore my guide dog is to be transported under the law." If the driver
>> refuses then by all means file a complaint, BUT also immediately contact
>> Tim
>> Elder. DO NOT WAIT. Any Uber driver who knowingly denies you a ride when
>> you
>> are accompanied by a guide dog is supposed to be dismissed immediately
>> under
>> the terms of our settlement with Uber.
>>
>> According to the settlement ALL Uber drivers are to have been required to
>> go
>> through specific service animal training and they should by now have been
>> required to acknowledge the training by agreeing that they WILL transport
>> any blind person with a guide dog. If they do not agree then they are to
>> be
>> summarily terminated. EVERY driver MUST agree to transport guide dogs or
>> they cannot drive for Uber. Again, if a driver thus denies a ride to a
>> blind
>> person with a guide dog where the passenger specifically informs the
>> driver
>> refusing a ride that the passenger is blind and that the dog is a guide
>> dog
>> then Uber is required to dismiss that driver with NO second chance.
>>
>> Lyn, this is a long answer, but I want everyone to make certain that they
>> know the rules. Again, email Tim immediately and also file the appropriate
>> complaint. Tim and the NFB evaluators will address the issue.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: L Gwizdak [mailto:leg1950 at cox.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:13 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>; 'Timothy Elder'
>> <telder at trelegal.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>> First, it was nice to meet you at the CSUN restaurant NFB gathering last
>> Tues. in San Diego!
>>
>> I see in your post that UBER drivers can get terminated for denying a
>> guide
>> dog. I don't use UBER myself but have ridden it with Lisa I, our Chapter
>> president. I got to experience a denial on Christmas Eve when we were
>> going
>> to a church service. Lisa sent an email to some UBER ADA person in
>> Chicago
>> and she emailed Tim Elder. She did these emails after calling UBER to say
>> we were denied a ride and we needed another driver. Meanwhile, we were
>> outside stuck in the rain.
>>
>> What I need to know is do we still do the steps we took before emailing
>> Tim
>> Elder? As for the driver getting canned, I have no idea. Is UBER
>> supposed
>> to tell us if the driver got canned or is it good enough to be told that
>> the
>> issue has been taken care of. I'm like, what does that mean???
>>
>> So, if you can clarify this for me, I'd appreciate it.
>>
>> Lyn and Aristotle
>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
>> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Hingson via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>; "'Timothy Elder'"
>> <telder at trelegal.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 12:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>>
>>> Ed et al,
>>>
>>> Under the terms of the class action settlement the driver totally
>>> violated the new Uber requirements. The key is that the driver was
>>> specifically told that the animal was a guide dog. The driver cannot
>>> use the excuse that he did not know.
>>>
>>> Under the terms of the settlement the driver's actions are grounds for
>>> IMMEDIATE DISMESSAL. Uber's response was wrong and inappropriate.
>>>
>>> I am copying Tim Elder on this email. Tim was the lead counsel on the
>>> Uber case. I just spoke with him about this and confirmed what I
>>> stated above before responding. If ANYONE encounters guide dog issues
>>> with Uber they should IMMEDIATELY notify Tim at Timothy Elder
>> telder at trelegal.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 10:56 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
>>> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well,
>>> for the most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd appreciate
>>> any help in how to proceed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a
>>> ride to my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up
>>> by a driver, I waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into
>>> my driveway. I approached the car with my dog in harness. The driver
>>> stated through the passenger side window: "I'm not taking the dog." I
>>> explainted that I am blind and that the dog is my guide dog. I
>>> explained the law and explained Uber's policy. The driver just kept
>>> repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't ride in my car." He locked
>>> the rear passenger door. He backed out of my driveway and drove off.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app
>>> and a support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that
>>> Uber takes these matters seriously, that the driver would be
>>> re-notified of his obligations and that the driver would have to
>>> re-affirm his understanding of the law and Uber's policy, and that he
>>> must allow service dogs to ride.
>>> The
>>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination
>>> from the Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no
>>> consequences to the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved guide
>>> dog user. Uber's software does not even allow me an opportunity to
>>> rate this driver as I was not charged. The driver will undoubtedly
>>> never pick up a ride request from me or from my home address again.
>>> He simply gets away with this and the Uber pool of drivers available
>>> to me is down by 1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've experienced
>>> similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive outcome?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Edward Rizzuto
>>>
>>> (530) 570-7000
>>>
>>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhings
>>> on.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>>
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:20:49 -0800
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'L Gwizdak'" <leg1950 at cox.net>, "'NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Timothy Elder'" <telder at trelegal.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
> Message-ID: <003301d29923$68164240$3842c6c0$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Lyn,
>
> I was certain of that. However, I wanted to emphasize the point as that is
> what triggers the proper complaint.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: L Gwizdak [mailto:leg1950 at cox.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:07 PM
> To: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: 'Timothy Elder' <telder at trelegal.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
> Oh yes, Michael, we make sure to inform the driver that we are blind and the
> dog is a guide dog trained for guiding the blind. Thanks.
>
> Lyn and Aristotle
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'L Gwizdak'" <leg1950 at cox.net>; "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National
> Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Timothy Elder'" <telder at trelegal.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:31 PM
> Subject: RE: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>
>
>> Hi Lyn,
>>
>> Good question. The important thing to know is that if you are going to
>> file a complaint it is important to make certain that when a driver
>> tells you that he or she is not going to transport you because of your
>> dog that you specifically inform the driver that the dog is a guide
>> dog and that you are blind. Essentially you use the same logic that we
>> use in any ADA situation.
>> "I am blind, this is a guide dog and the dog is trained to guide me
>> and therefore my guide dog is to be transported under the law." If the
>> driver refuses then by all means file a complaint, BUT also
>> immediately contact Tim Elder. DO NOT WAIT. Any Uber driver who
>> knowingly denies you a ride when you are accompanied by a guide dog is
>> supposed to be dismissed immediately under the terms of our settlement
>> with Uber.
>>
>> According to the settlement ALL Uber drivers are to have been required
>> to go through specific service animal training and they should by now
>> have been required to acknowledge the training by agreeing that they
>> WILL transport any blind person with a guide dog. If they do not agree
>> then they are to be summarily terminated. EVERY driver MUST agree to
>> transport guide dogs or they cannot drive for Uber. Again, if a driver
>> thus denies a ride to a blind person with a guide dog where the
>> passenger specifically informs the driver refusing a ride that the
>> passenger is blind and that the dog is a guide dog then Uber is
>> required to dismiss that driver with NO second chance.
>>
>> Lyn, this is a long answer, but I want everyone to make certain that
>> they know the rules. Again, email Tim immediately and also file the
>> appropriate complaint. Tim and the NFB evaluators will address the issue.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Michael Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: L Gwizdak [mailto:leg1950 at cox.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 1:13 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>; 'Timothy Elder'
>> <telder at trelegal.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>> First, it was nice to meet you at the CSUN restaurant NFB gathering
>> last Tues. in San Diego!
>>
>> I see in your post that UBER drivers can get terminated for denying a
>> guide dog. I don't use UBER myself but have ridden it with Lisa I,
>> our Chapter president. I got to experience a denial on Christmas Eve
>> when we were going to a church service. Lisa sent an email to some
>> UBER ADA person in Chicago and she emailed Tim Elder. She did these
>> emails after calling UBER to say we were denied a ride and we needed
>> another driver. Meanwhile, we were outside stuck in the rain.
>>
>> What I need to know is do we still do the steps we took before
>> emailing Tim Elder? As for the driver getting canned, I have no idea.
>> Is UBER supposed to tell us if the driver got canned or is it good
>> enough to be told that the issue has been taken care of. I'm like,
>> what does that mean???
>>
>> So, if you can clarify this for me, I'd appreciate it.
>>
>> Lyn and Aristotle
>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
>> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Hingson via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>; "'Timothy Elder'"
>> <telder at trelegal.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 12:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>
>>
>>> Ed et al,
>>>
>>> Under the terms of the class action settlement the driver totally
>>> violated the new Uber requirements. The key is that the driver was
>>> specifically told that the animal was a guide dog. The driver cannot
>>> use the excuse that he did not know.
>>>
>>> Under the terms of the settlement the driver's actions are grounds
>>> for IMMEDIATE DISMESSAL. Uber's response was wrong and inappropriate.
>>>
>>> I am copying Tim Elder on this email. Tim was the lead counsel on the
>>> Uber case. I just spoke with him about this and confirmed what I
>>> stated above before responding. If ANYONE encounters guide dog issues
>>> with Uber they should IMMEDIATELY notify Tim at Timothy Elder
>> telder at trelegal.com.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ed Rizzuto
>>> via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 10:56 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: Ed Rizzuto <edrizzutolaw at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] Hello, and Uber Letdown
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm new to this list, and a new guide dog user. I returned home from
>>> training two weeks ago with my German Shepherd and it's going well,
>>> for the most part. I live in Durham, North Carolina.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure the following situation is not a first. I'd
>>> appreciate any help in how to proceed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I use Uber on an almost daily basis. Last Thursday, I requested a
>>> ride to my daughter's school, I confirmed the ride, it was picked up
>>> by a driver, I waited 17 minutes, the driver arrived and pulled into
>>> my driveway. I approached the car with my dog in harness. The
>>> driver stated through the passenger side window: "I'm not taking the
>>> dog." I explainted that I am blind and that the dog is my guide dog.
>>> I explained the law and explained Uber's policy. The driver just
>>> kept repeating, "I don't care, the dog can't ride in my car." He
>>> locked the rear passenger door. He backed out of my driveway and drove
> off.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I filled out the'service dog issue' report template on the Uber app
>>> and a support rep called me several days later. The rep advised that
>>> Uber takes these matters seriously, that the driver would be
>>> re-notified of his obligations and that the driver would have to
>>> re-affirm his understanding of the law and Uber's policy, and that he
>>> must allow service dogs to ride.
>>> The
>>> support rep advised that the driver may face permanent termination
>>> from the Uber program if he committed another violation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In my view, Uber's response and policy amounts to an
>>> 'at-least-one-free-pass' anti discrimination policy with no
>>> consequences to the driver and no compensation for the aggrieved
>>> guide dog user. Uber's software does not even allow me an
>>> opportunity to rate this driver as I was not charged. The driver
>>> will undoubtedly never pick up a ride request from me or from my home
> address again.
>>> He simply gets away with this and the Uber pool of drivers available
>>> to me is down by 1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My question to the group members is.. To the extent you've
>>> experienced similar discrimination, have you had any more of a positive
> outcome?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Edward Rizzuto
>>>
>>> (530) 570-7000
>>>
>>> edrizzutolaw at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mike%40michaelhing
>>> s
>>> on.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> NAGDU:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>>
>>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 31
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 17:40:45 -0500
> From: <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Question For Musicians
> Message-ID: <07264415704B49D0AE4F86CDBE7E9287 at LarryPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I will put Holly under my chair because I play flute! Doesn't take up much
> room!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cindy Ray via NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 5:01 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Question For Musicians
>
> What do you do in your perforrmances? I have forgotten. I play the organ.
> Granted, I was not professional, but I always took my dog on stage with me
> and I tied him/her to the organ bench.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rachel Grider via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 3:19 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Rachel Grider <rachel.grider at gmail.com>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Question For Musicians
>
> Hello, Friends:
>
> I have a question for those of you who perform. I am going to be traveling
> next month to play a role in a show. This will take place over three
> weekends and in several different locations. In order to save money, I will
> be staying at friends' houses.
>
> It would not be appropriate to have Demi on stage with me, but I definitely
> need to travel with her to and from the venues. I have already talked to the
> director of this show about leaving Demi in her portable kennel in the green
> room during the shows and dress rehearsals, or else having an usher watch
> her, and he says this would be all right. I am wondering, though, what
> others have done in this situation. Are there any other ways y'all have
> found to deal with performances like this?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Rachel
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NAGDU mailing list
> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 32
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 15:05:14 -0800
> From: Heather Hutchison <heather at heather-hutchison.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Question For Musicians
> Message-ID:
> <01C079B5-26BB-4EC9-A021-20CD139DABE4 at heather-hutchison.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hi Rachel,
>
> When I worked a dog I would usually take her on stage with me and she was very much used to and comfortable with it. A couple of times during our partnership it wasn?t practical to have her on stage with me, so I?d typically have her backstage and then hand her off to someone I knew and trusted to hold her for the duration of the show. I don?t know what kind of show this is or the setup of where you?ll be playing but is there a sound or lighting tech that might be able to hold onto her? I wonder if this would be more practical as they may be more stationary than an usher once they?re done with setup.
>
> -Heather
>
>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 1:18 PM, Rachel Grider via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello, Friends:
>>
>> I have a question for those of you who perform. I am going to be traveling next month to play a role in a show. This will take place over three weekends and in several different locations. In order to save money, I will be staying at friends' houses.
>>
>> It would not be appropriate to have Demi on stage with me, but I definitely need to travel with her to and from the venues. I have already talked to the director of this show about leaving Demi in her portable kennel in the green room during the shows and dress rehearsals, or else having an usher watch her, and he says this would be all right. I am wondering, though, what others have done in this situation. Are there any other ways y'all have found to deal with performances like this?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Rachel
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/heather%40heather-hutchison.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 33
> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 17:15:02 -0600
> From: Danielle Ledet <singingmywayin at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
> Message-ID:
> <CAMxXqESkkkg++0KCs7GQkWpBbrZ+rQQKP524hgv+uUz5RsBLhA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> For your peace of mind and lessening frustration, there is a new store
> called On the Go Products at www.blindmicemegamall.com. Get a
> relieving harness! No more stopping!
>
> I had a dog like that and do not want another who stops en route! It
> wasn't everyday nor at the same spot, but I still don't want a dog who
> does that!
>
> On 3/9/17, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> What do you mean "not completely." I realize it isn't going to make the dog
>> stop deficating where it isn't preferred, but you can log such that you
>> know
>> what was going on immediately before and after. That can help you possibly
>> learn things about the behavior, factors that would help you more easily
>> end
>> the behavior.
>>
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 2:27 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Jordan Gallacher <jordanandbelto at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>>
>> Yep a log does help but not completely.
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 2:00 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Cindy Ray
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>>
>> A log may be a good idea anyway because it issn't on all trips, right? I
>> found that if I allowed my dog to go wherever she wanted to, she would stop
>> at the same place again, so it was sort of becoming a habit. I always
>> pulled
>> her past there and made her work until she wouldn't work anymore. Then if
>> she did and we completed the trip, I took her outside as sort of a reward
>> as
>> well as a relief. I don't think it completely helped though.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 1:50 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>>
>> I experimented for 2 months or so with feeding most of Krokus food in the
>> morning, with a smaller portion in the evening. I kept a log of poop
>> times,
>> which showed that the change in feeding did not make any real difference,
>> so
>> I went back to half-and-half, which is easier for me to measure.
>> Feel free to try yourself, though. I found the log very helpful in showing
>> whether it was having the desired effect.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Gallacher
>> via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 2:44 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Jordan Gallacher
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>>
>> I am going to have to try playing around with how much food Belto gets and
>> when I get I think. I have not quite figured out how much to feed him in
>> terms of that in the morning and at night since he gets one cup both times.
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David via NAGDU
>> Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 11:26 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: david at bakerinet.com; Tracy Carcione
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have the same issue. Claire Rose is 41 moths old. She urinates in a
>> regular spot in the morning, but will not defecate until she is about 50
>> yards into walking outside. That's not much of a problem. The two
>> additional stops to defecate at about 500 and 1,000 to 3,000 yards,
>> however,
>> are a big problem, especially since they are interspersed with two more
>> stops to urinate (briefly squirt). I can't tell whether she is pulling
>> over
>> to defecate or to urinate, so if I think she just wants to squirt and I
>> don't stop, I find that she has left a poop trail on the sidewalk. If l
>> wait to remove her harness while she is hunching up to defecate, then she
>> stops and won't continue until we get another 20 yards down the street.
>> I've worked with my trainer on schedules, diet and adding things to her
>> food. We switched to hydrolyzed protein, which decreased the volume and
>> the
>> odor dramatically, but has not altered the behavior. We added Metamucil,
>> but she vomited every meal that included it about 6 hours after feeding.
>> We
>> added green beans - a bit softer, but no change in behavior. I'm now
>> trying
>> a couple of tablespoons of pumpkin puree, which has also softened the stool
>> somewhat and added a little volume, but, again, no change in behavior.
>> Since I have some residual vision on good days, I can usually handle this
>> even though it is very frustrating. I am more concerned about travel,
>> Since
>> she defecates in harness if I don't stop, I am wondering if this is going
>> to
>> be a problem with flying. In the past, she handled 10 three hour flights
>> with ease, but back then she didn't have this issue.
>> Does anyone have any other ideas about changing this pattern of behavior?
>> David
>> & Claire Rose in Clearwater, FL
>> Original Message ----------------------------
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Relieving on route
>> From: "Tracy Carcione via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>
>> Date: Thu, March 9, 2017 9:17 am
>>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>
>> Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>> I wrote a few weeks ago about getting Krokus to relieve himself in a
>>> safe
>>
>>> place, if he must relieve himself on route.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> My last dog also needed to relieve on route, but he could go until we
>>
>>> reached a particular spot. This is better than what I've got now,
>>> which is
>>
>>> that Krokus stops when he feels the urge, then I have to shoo him
>>> along
>>
>>> until we come to a safe place.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Right now, he slams on the brakes when he feels the need to stop, and
>>> I give
>>
>>> him a sharp correction. Then he keeps slowing down at various places
>>> he
>>
>>> thinks could be good, and I keep hopping him up until we get to a
>>> place of
>>
>>> my choosing.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Ideally, I want him to go before we set out, which sometimes happens,
>>> and
>>
>>> sometimes not. If he does go right away, he gets lots of praise.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Next best, I'd like to eliminate all the stopping. If he must stop,
>>> I'd
>>
>>> like him to stop once at a place I've chosen.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Is there some easier way to get to my goal, without all the correcting
>>> and
>>
>>> shooing?
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Tracy
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>> NAGDU mailing list
>>
>>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/david%40bakerinet.c
>>> om
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NAGDU mailing list
>> NAGDU at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> NAGDU:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jordanandbelto%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> How far you go in life depends on your being tender with the young,
> compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and
> tolerant of the weak and strong. Because someday in your life you will
> have been all of these.
> George Washington Carver
> Email: singingmywayin at gmail.com
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> End of NAGDU Digest, Vol 144, Issue 11
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