[NAGDU] Softer Dogs?

Wed Mar 22 19:48:14 UTC 2017

Well, this thing about softer dogs not being strong dogs I s interesting.
When I ws in training, Irish is quiet and gentle and I remember asking my
trainer if he was sure Irish would assert himself like in situations with a
traffic check or in stressful high traffic situations aned things like that.
He assured me that absolutely, he could and would assert himself. Well, in
the last 9 years, I found that that gentle sweet dog can assert himself
quite well and really is a strong steady dog with backbone. Even though he
is probably would you would refer to as a soft dog, he's very strong and
focused and I would trust him in a minute. The coolest one was one day in
downtown Honolulu at one of the big major busy intersections, we were
crossing and all of a sudden he turns and pushes me starting out gently and
increasing force to stop like he was saying right now! We still had one lane
of traffic left and as long as he felt like I might still take a step he'd
push on me. I couldn't figure out what was going on but it just sounded very
odd, like I was standing on a freeway overpass or something the way the
traffic was echoing. I figured we couldn't walk around the corner because of
all the traffic coming and I hoped to goodness that the traffic would wait
in that last lane for me to get out of the way when the light changed. Well,
when the light changed, I told irish forward and he hustled his butt around
that corner and into the other crosswalk and we finished crossing the
intersection to get where we needed to be. You know how it is, when you need
to know something nobody is there to tell you. When I got in the building I
was going to I asked what was the problem out in the intersection and turns
out they were doing underground electrical work and apparently left a
manhole unattended.  There was nothing weak or whimpy about that boy that
day, I tell you! Don't let softness fool you, give the dog a chance.

Charlene

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Belville via
NAGDU
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 10:01 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Lisa Belville <missktlab1217 at frontier.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Softer Dogs?

Oh Tracey, I agree completely.  I think we had a similar discussion last 
year when we were discussing expectations for newer dogs and how the bar was

being steadily lowered.  I get the need for a softer dog with an aging 
population and donors not wanting to see the doggie getting corrected, yada,

yada, but a dog can be so sensitive that it can't handle any kind of 
correction or work needing concentration and assertiveness, or some 
combination of the two.  Most schools expect some kind of informal work 
right from the moment the matches are announced.  Whether it's leash at the 
GDF or healing our dogs around the building and to that very first 
after-match announcement meal like they do at GDA, then that's when the 
learning needs to start, in my opinion.  I'm not saying we need to use hard 
corrections, but the dog needs to start learning what the expectations are, 
and we as handlers need to know how are dog reacts to praise or correction.

I was surprised how they used leash corrections when I trained with Paige at

GDA.  We did use corrections, even a two handed one if it was necessary, 
though mostly while on campus and not in the public eye.  Generally we had a

class of very soft dogs-- one person's dog got spooked if the handler raised

their voice to the dog.  This, IMO, is too soft, but it wasn't my dog.  We 
gave very firm verbal and physical corrections during group obedience and 
food refusal sessions.

I think the degree of correction used is also up to the individual trainer's

discretion.  I got a stern in-private talking to by one of Paige's trainers 
when I gave her a harness snap for goofing off.  Later, another trainer 
suggested a two-handed correction when the same behavior started again. 
Personally, a two-handed correction looks worse than a harness snap, but 
what do I know.

Generally, Paige is a calm, submissive, dog who responds well to verbal 
guidance, so I haven't had any serious need to correct her other than a 
general leash snap.

Lisa

Lisa Belville
missktlab1217 at frontier.com
IF THE HOUSEWORK IS DONE - THEN THE COMPUTER IS Broken!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tracy Carcione via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Softer Dogs?

> All that writing, and I for got something.
> This time, when I was at TSE, and we were walking to the dining room for
> the first time, trying to make our dogs heel, Krokus was being a total
> jerk, pulling as hard as he could.  I tried the mild things my trainer
> said to do, and they were useless, so I gave him a good jerk to try to get
> him to stop pulling.  My trainer came down on me like a ton of bricks!  I
> was shocked.  All my other dogs were expected to do at least some
> reasonable version of heel right off, and got corrected if they didn't.
> GDB particularly made a big deal of it.  Heeling up and down the halls was
> one of the first things we did with our new dogs.  But that was long ago.
> And I still expect some reasonable behavior right off the bat. But my
> trainers didn't seem to.
> But wait till next time.  The dog will be acting the fool, and I'll get
> yelled at for not correcting him; just you wait and see.
> Tracy
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> The recent thread on obedience got me thinking about the way it feels
>> as though guide dog schools have grown softer in their approach to
>> correction.
>>
>> I received Gator from The Seeing Eye in 2004. I trained under Pete
>> Jackson, a no nonsense instructor who worked very hard at
>> understanding where the canine was coming from but not cutting any
>> slack where a hard correction was warranted. High collars, while not
>> eagerly encouraged, were a standard recommendation.
>>
>> I went back to TSE in 2015 and received Matthew. The training
>> atmosphere was noticeably more relaxed where corrections were
>> concerned. If high collars were mentioned at all, it was probably
>> because I asked about it. It felt as though there was a greater lean
>> toward clickers and treats.
>>
>> So, my question: For those of you who have handled dogs for a while,
>> have you noticed a similar trend, and if so, how have you adjusted
>> your own handling practices? I sometimes feel mean for running a tight
>> ship with Matthew, but I feel in some ways as though my first guide
>> dog instruction set the mood for my discipline philosophy moving
>> forward. I was never one to be unnecessarily aggressive. It looks
>> publically awkward, and I think such tactics have diminishing returns.
>> Yet, I am quick to leash correct for what may otherwise be considered
>> small infractions. How much of your own philosophy do you retain after
>> bringing your guide dog home?
>>
>> Thanks for any ponderings on the subject.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Joe
>>
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>
>
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