[NAGDU] time to think about which guide dog school to apply to

Fri May 19 19:20:38 UTC 2017

Cindy, 
I actually did not bring up owner training at all in my message, so I'm unclear why you think I'm suggesting this is the road everyone should take? 
I was simply stating my histery, and experience and how it has affected me and my choices. 

 Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
Pawpower4me at gmail.com
Sent from my iPhone

> On May 19, 2017, at 2:03 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Each program no doubt has its faults, I would aree, but we aren't all meant to train our own dogs. If we can't put our trust in any program, then we may feel that we are up the proverbial creek. I would choose a school with an unconditional ownership policy. Usually there are no surprises then. Of course there will be disagreements from time to time, but if the program believes in blind people, then you will go much further with such a one as unconditional ownership.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The Pawpower Pack via NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 1:59 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] time to think about which guide dog school to apply to
> 
> Brenda,
> I attended a program for my first 2 dogs which did not grant ownership, although it was not GEB. 
> When my first dog became ill at a young age, I was totally removed from the decision making process regarding her care. I was told that if I didn't like it I could just choose not to give her any medications to slow down the cancer at all. My second dog also had health issues and when I chose to feed her a raw diet I was reminded that they owned her  and  I went through quite a lot in order to prove to them that it was safe .  When I Retired her it was a hard process because they wanted her back to reissue her— she was 5. And there were many reasons it would not have been appropriate or safe for the dog.  The program in question had the year before started offering  an unconditional ownership and I firmly believe that piece of paper is what kept her with me until she died at age 16 When someone owns something, their decision is the beginning and end, they get the final say. I personally have had my trust so broken that I will never let an organization have that kind of power over me and my working dog, no matter how "good" or "well intended" they may be. 
> Also, disagreements happen, things happen.  At the beginning, everyone seems to have a great relationship with the programs.  But if you ever have a disagreement, because they do happen,  what are your options then?  
> Also, if an organization has so low of an opinion of blind people and their ability to handle a working dog, that they do not allow you the right to own and make the decisions about the dog, what does that say about them? 
> Like I said, my experience is not with geb and your mileage may vary.  I wish you the very best. 
> 
> 
> Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 19, 2017, at 12:15 PM, Brenda via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jordan, Jeff and List,
>> 
>> I have made my list and GEB is at the top.  TSE is toward the bottom, and Leader is in the middle somewhere. I will not go into my criteria here, but I have gone through the process.
>> 
>> I'm just focusing on the schools that do not grant ownership and Listers' experiences.  i.e. have people had issues with nonownership schools where the school gave them a hard time about keeping their dog etc.
>> 
>> And, I was told yesterday by Admissions at GEB that they do not grant ownership.  Maybe they used to.  I didn't ask when that changed.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Brenda
>> 
>>> On 5/19/2017 1:04 PM, Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU wrote:
>>> TSE, Leader, and GDF are all good.  First you have to decide what you want
>>> from a school because not all schools are the same when it comes to
>>> training.
>>> Jordan
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Brenda via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 11:37 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Brenda
>>> Subject: [NAGDU] time to think about which guide dog school to apply to
>>> Hello List,
>>> this week my pet dog Sadie passed over the rainbow bridge.  She was 15 years
>>> old and we had a wonderful life together. She is playing with her cat
>>> sisters who have gone before her. I will miss her and am still sad, but she
>>> is no longer suffering so I'm at peace.
>>> As my vision waned over the years, I became more and more interested in
>>> getting a guide dog, but sadie who was an APL rescue didn't like other dogs.
>>> I did get O&m training to maintain my independence and have been using my
>>> skills and now I am ready to apply for a guide.
>>> I have been surfing the guide dog school websites and reading posts from
>>> here and elsewhere about different guide dog schools and am now trying to
>>> sort things out.
>>> Several schools at the top of my list do not grant full ownership. This
>>> concerns me, but other than that I like the schools.  One school that does
>>> grant ownership is in California.  I live in Ohio and don't want to be on a
>>> plane for a long time.  that may be silly, but I can't get over it.
>>> So...I would appreciate Listers input/opinions/guidance/thoughts on my
>>> situation.
>>> the school I really like is Guiding eyes for the Blind.  They do not grant
>>> ownership at all, but I have not heard/read  anything negative about them. I
>>> doubt they are in business to develop teams only to take the dog away.
>>> My intent is not to debate ownership issues.  I want to learn Listers'
>>> experiences with nonownership schools with the focus on GEB.
>>> Thanks for any input.
>>> Brenda
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