[NAGDU] Seeing Eye repossession: was Re: OFF NAGDU List ownership

Sat May 20 15:17:24 UTC 2017

Short form of the story is that After having major traffic and street
crossing issues with Brewer of June of 2009, and thus had retired Brewer at
that point.  Next thing I knew they were coming to get the dog.  I have a
weird feeling that someone at the training center I was at at the time was
falsely telling TSE things because why else would TSE call the center I was
attending.  I had zero communication with TSE after retiring Brewer, and in
fact already had found a home for him.  Had I not been recovering from an
illness that unfortunately will never go away since it was not caught early,
and the medications I was on kept me in a bit of a hazey state, and it did
not hit me until after it all went down that they did what they did without
any justification.
Jordan

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Young via
NAGDU
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:55 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Jeffrey Young
Subject: [NAGDU] Seeing Eye repossession: was Re: OFF NAGDU List ownership

Hi Jordan,
I'm curious how The Seeing Eye removed your dog? Did they go through animal
control, or did you relinquish ownership back to them of your own volition?
If neither of these, did you contact local law-inforcement, as would have
been your right as the owner? 
If none of these, then I'm curious how this happened, as numerous TSE
instructors have told me that the only way they can take a dog from a
handler is if their is abuse, and local animal control is involved, or if
the owner voluntarily gives ownership back to Seeing Eye. So, I am curious
as to what happened. 

Jeff Young

> On May 19, 2017, at 10:36 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> 
> Actually she wrote T S E (TSE) so I think she did mean The Seeing Eye.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The 
> Pawpower Pack via NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 9:10 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] OFF NAGDU List ownership
> 
> Hey Jeff,
> I think she was referring to South Eastern as se. 
> 
> Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 19, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Jeffrey Young via NAGDU 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Brenda,
>> Your message intended for Marian went to the entire list. Just 
>> letting you
> know. 
>> I would however, like to hear of a TSE handlers dog being 
>> repossessed, as
> TSE grants unconditional ownership upon graduation. Therefore, such an 
> action would constitute theft under the law, and the handler would 
> have legal recourse,  which is not the case when a school does not 
> grant ownership.
>> 
>> Jeff Young
>> 
>>> On May 19, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Brenda via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Marion,
>>> 
>>> I'm writing off list.
>>> 
>>> In a perfect world all guide dog schools would give instant ownership.
> Because I'm not impressed with the schools that do, and those I am 
> interested in do not, I am willing to make compromises. Also, I have 
> heard from someone who had their TSE guide removed and TSE gives full 
> ownership so it would appear even with full ownership there could be
issues.
>>> 
>>> I respect and agree with you about ownership, but practical 
>>> application
> wins out for me. The benefits will have to outweigh the risks as it were.
>>> 
>>> I do respect your opinion so am sharing my comments and questions 
>>> with
> you.
>>> 
>>> Southeastern has in addition to the 11-yr retirement rule, a 
>>> provision
> where they can reclaim the dog before 5 years if the team isn't 
> working.  I realize there is an expense to train a dog, but it is one 
> more trauma for a handler who may have a situation where they can no 
> longer work - if they had full ownership, this would not happen. I 
> think they also have some other stipulations regarding ownership. My 
> friend who has a guide from Southeastern said they have had incidents 
> where they felt it necessary to make these provisions.
>>> 
>>> I am curious if you could tell me if you have ever run across a 
>>> recent
> situation where a handler from Guiding Eyes for the Blind had their dog
> removed?   If so, can you give me a summary of what happened? I can ask
GEB,
> but I am interested in an outside source such as yourself.
>>> 
>>> I have not made a final decision, and appreciate your input.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Brenda
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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> m
>> 
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