[NAGDU] Seeing Eye repossession: was OFF NAGDU List ownership

Sat May 20 15:52:26 UTC 2017

There is more to it, that is for sure, but no clue what else went on that I
do not know about.  I cut off communication with TSE since they were not
believing me or helping me with a couple problems Brewer was doing which
caused me to get injured once since he decided to start leaping off flights
of stairs, and the only way I could really solve that was to not do stairs,
and he was trying to bite people including me.  That almost caused me an
issue in Wal-Mart one time.
Jordan
-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
NAGDU
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 10:41 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Cindy Ray
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Seeing Eye repossession: was OFF NAGDU List ownership

I think it is too bad when things like this happen, but we don't know the
whole story in Jordan's case. Sunshine, what you described was how The
Seeing Eye generally handles situations, so something is truly missing from
the story for me, but maybe I just missed it.
Cindy Lou Ray, Moderator
cindyray at gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sunshine via
NAGDU
Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 10:31 AM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Cc: Sunshine <sunshine81780 at att.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Seeing Eye repossession: was OFF NAGDU List ownership

aI am so sorry this happened to you! I've heard of people causing problems
for graduates and sometimes at least 5 people ganged up on a couple people
that I know of and while they never took dogs from the people, they were not
able to acquire successor dogs! It's sad that people "make trouble" for
others. At one place of employment when working in Canada, a woman attempted
'to cause trouble for me. She called the school and said I was starving my
dog and also the SPCA. I received a call from the school letting me know
someone was out to get me, but didn't give a name. Then the next day,
someone from the SPCA talked with me. I didn't know that was where he was
from, but he asked if he could see my dog. I told him that I usually keep my
dog beneath the desk while I'm working. He was able to see him and agreed
that, indeed, my dog was not starving and really could stand to lose a few
pounds. A report was then sent to Seeing Eye. It wasn't until after he
looked at my dog that he told me where he happened to be from. Thankfully,
that employee was warned that if she continued to cause problems for me, she
would lose her job. Eventually she did lose her job, but not because she
continued to give me problems. She left me alone. Gosh, I'd never neglect my
dogs, nor would I beat a dog!

----- Original Message -----
From: Jordan Gallacher via NAGDU  <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: his'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Date: Saturday, May 20, 2017 10:18 am
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Seeing Eye repossession: was Re: OFF NAGDU List
ownership

>
>
> Short form of the story is that After having major traffic and street 
> crossing issues with Brewer of June of 2009, and thus had retired 
> Brewer at that point.  Next thing I knew they were coming to get the 
> dog.  I have a weird feeling that someone at the training center I was 
> at at the time was falsely telling TSE things because why else would 
> TSE call the center I was attending.  I had zero communication with 
> TSE after retiring Brewer, and in fact already had found a home for 
> him.  Had I not been recovering from an illness that unfortunately 
> will never go away since it was not caught early, and the medications 
> I was on kept me in a bit of a hazey state, and it did not hit me 
> until after it all went down that they did what they did without any
justification.
> Jordan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey 
> Young via NAGDU
> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 10:55 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Jeffrey Young
> Subject: [NAGDU] Seeing Eye repossession: was Re: OFF NAGDU List 
> ownership
> 
> Hi Jordan,
> I'm curious how The Seeing Eye removed your dog? Did they go through 
> animal control, or did you relinquish ownership back to them of your 
> own
volition?
> If neither of these, did you contact local law-inforcement, as would 
> have been your right as the owner?
> If none of these, then I'm curious how this happened, as numerous TSE 
> instructors have told me that the only way they can take a dog from a 
> handler is if their is abuse, and local animal control is involved, or 
> if the owner voluntarily gives ownership back to Seeing Eye. So, I am 
> curious as to what happened.
> 
> Jeff Young
> 
> > On May 19, 2017, at 10:36 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> > 
> > Actually she wrote T S E (TSE) so I think she did mean The Seeing Eye.
> > Cindy Lou Ray
> > cindyray at gmail.com
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The 
> > Pawpower Pack via NAGDU
> > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 9:10 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NAGDU] OFF NAGDU List ownership
> > 
> > Hey Jeff,
> > I think she was referring to South Eastern as se. 
> > 
> > Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
> > Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> > Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> >> On May 19, 2017, at 9:02 PM, Jeffrey Young via NAGDU 
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hi Brenda,
> >> Your message intended for Marian went to the entire list. Just 
> >> letting you
> > know. 
> >> I would however, like to hear of a TSE handlers dog being 
> >> repossessed, as
> > TSE grants unconditional ownership upon graduation. Therefore, such 
> > an action would constitute theft under the law, and the handler 
> > would have legal recourse,  which is not the case when a school does 
> > not grant ownership.
> >> 
> >> Jeff Young
> >> 
> >>> On May 19, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Brenda via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Hi Marion,
> >>> 
> >>> I'm writing off list.
> >>> 
> >>> In a perfect world all guide dog schools would give instant ownership.
> > Because I'm not impressed with the schools that do, and those I am 
> > interested in do not, I am willing to make compromises. Also, I have 
> > heard from someone who had their TSE guide removed and TSE gives 
> > full ownership so it would appear even with full ownership there 
> > could be
> issues.
> >>> 
> >>> I respect and agree with you about ownership, but practical 
> >>> application
> > wins out for me. The benefits will have to outweigh the risks as it
were.
> >>> 
> >>> I do respect your opinion so am sharing my comments and questions 
> >>> with
> > you.
> >>> 
> >>> Southeastern has in addition to the 11-yr retirement rule, a 
> >>> provision
> > where they can reclaim the dog before 5 years if the team isn't 
> > working.  I realize there is an expense to train a dog, but it is 
> > one more trauma for a handler who may have a situation where they 
> > can no longer work - if they had full ownership, this would not 
> > happen. I think they also have some other stipulations regarding 
> > ownership. My friend who has a guide from Southeastern said they 
> > have had incidents where they felt it necessary to make these
provisions.
> >>> 
> >>> I am curious if you could tell me if you have ever run across a 
> >>> recent
> > situation where a handler from Guiding Eyes for the Blind had their dog
> > removed?   If so, can you give me a summary of what happened? I can ask
> GEB,
> > but I am interested in an outside source such as yourself.
> >>> 
> >>> I have not made a final decision, and appreciate your input.
> >>> 
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>> Brenda
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> > gm
> > ail.co
> > m
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
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